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May 16 & 17, 2005
Lander Inn
Lander, Wyoming
Senator Bruce Burns, Co-Chairman
Representative Pat Childers, Co-Chairman
Senator Stan Cooper
Senator Mike Massie
Senator Tony Ross
Senator Michael Von Flatern
Representative Kermit Brown
Representative Kathy Davison
Representative Keith Gingery
Representative Jerry Iekel
Representative Wayne Reese
Representative Jim Slater
Representative Bill Thompson
Representative Dan Zwonitzer
Other Legislators Present
Senator Cale Case
Representative Ann Robinson
Lynda G. Cook, Staff Attorney
Please refer to
Appendix 1 to review the Committee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.
Co-Chairman Childers called the meeting to order at 8:00 a.m.. The following sections summarize the Committee proceedings by topic. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.
Representative Iekel moved the minutes from the November 29 meeting be approved. The motion passed.
Gaming
Comments
from Pat Crank, Wyoming Attorney General
General Crank gave a synopsis of the First District Court ruling on e-bingo. The main holdings were that the entities were not running the machines themselves and that e-bingo was not bingo. Judge Burke ruled that only traditional bingo was provided for under the current statute. General Crank stated that the decision has been appealed, however, a ruling from the Supreme Court is not expected before the next session. As a result of the decision nearly every county has shut down e-bingo. There have been some instances of internet cafes opening in the old buildings, purportedly offering e-bingo via the internet, but they have been closed down and the machines have been seized, although charges have not yet been brought.
When asked about controlling internet gaming General Crank explained that the federal government has authority under the commerce clause to regulate interstate gaming via the internet and a Utah federal district court decision held that the states do not have authority to regulate it. However, a business running an internet café for the purpose of facilitating internet gaming would be in violation of state law prohibiting gambling because the café would be indirectly profiting from the gambling. Chairman Burns asked if a local internet café has a responsibility to police its users and Gen. Crank responded "maybe". He compared it to users downloading child pornography – if the café owner knows it is occurring he could be arrested too.
When asked whether the legislature needed to update the statutes General Crank felt that they may need to. He felt that the statutes did a good job in prohibiting most forms of gambling, but the statutes were borrowed from Colorado in 1982, and there is currently no mechanism overseeing the forms of gambling, i.e. traditional bingo and pull-tabs, that are allowed. He agreed that there should be a state commission overseeing gambling and that if there were there would be less of the unequal interpretation and enforcement that occurs at the county level. He also agreed that the committee should include a definition of "non-profit" from last year's committee bill.
General Crank stated that he believes the current statutes are very clear about what is allowed and is not allowed in terms of gambling in Wyoming despite the fact that the 10th Circuit court of appeals indicated the statutes were ambiguous during the oral argument in the Arapahoe case. General Crank proceeded to describe the interpretations of the term "casino style gaming" used in federal courts in cases involving the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. In the Arapahoe case, the state argues that although social gambling is allowed, it is not allowed if any third person profits indirectly or directly from it. Therefore professional gambling is not allowed in Wyoming and should not be allowed on the reservation. General Crank cited the Seminole Tribe case out of Florida supporting this position. (See Appendix 3). According to General Crank, the tribes argue that because social gambling is allowed, then they are allowed to provide all Class III gambling as well. The case is currently before the en banc panel of the 10th Circuit court of appeals. In the meantime, the tribe is allowing Class II gaming, as provided in the IGRA, and that includes e-bingo machines.
On the topic of poker, General Crank stated that if a poker game is being held at a business institution like a bar, and the bar profits indirectly, simply by selling beverages to the players, then the game is illegal. General Crank agreed to provide the committee with copies of Attorney General opinions which support his interpretation. (See Appendix 4).
Comments
from Dave Askew, Wyoming Association of Non-Profits
Mr. Askew provided a handout describing how non-profit revenues are down since e-bingo was deemed illegal. He also described how donations from non-profits to other projects are down as well. (See Appendix 5). Mr. Askew agreed to provide further information about the revenues generated differentiating between e-bingo and traditional bingo.
When asked what the impact of the e-bingo decision was on fraternal organizations, Mr. Askew stated that 1) they are giving out less donations, 2) some clubs are in financial trouble, 3) some clubs are having to borrow money, and 4) there has been a loss of member participation in activities. Clubs are resorting to more traditional methods of bringing in revenues such as booking banquets and renting their halls. Mr. Askew felt the organizations he represented would be amenable to legislation that allowed e-bingo but required the organizations to donate 100% of the profits, after expenses, to charitable projects.
Comments
from Frank Lamb, Director, Wyoming Pari-Mutuel Commission
Mr. Lamb provided an overview of the current regulatory authority of the Pari-Mutuel commission. Their primary goal is "protection of the betting public" but their expertise is in regulating horse racing in Wyoming. He provided the committee with a annual report (See Appendix 6) and agreed to provide a report from the American Horse Council which describes the economic impact of horse ownership and breeding in Wyoming. (See Appendix 7).
Mr. Lamb stated that if the pari-Mutuel commission were made the regulatory authority over gaming in Wyoming it would drastically change the commission's focus from regulating an agri-business to something very different. He also stated that whatever entity is created for regulating gambling, they will need very strict authority to oversee the money changing hands and be able to perform strict background checks of persons involved.
Mr. Lamb also asked the committee to sponsor legislation to bring the commission in compliance with the language necessary to do FBI fingerprinting checks, and legislation allowing for increased handles (take out percentages) at pari-Mutuel races. The Committee agreed to have those bills brought before them for consideration at their next meeting.
Public
Comment
Mike Moser, Wyoming State Liquor Association, testified that his clients have concerns that they could lose their liquor licenses if patrons start a game of poker in a bar. He stated that until recently nobody thought that "indirect" profiting included just selling beverages, but rather everyone believed that indirect profiting meant taking a cut from the game. He also stated that there is real friction between non-profits and for profit businesses on the issue of gambling.
Eric Nelson and Whitey Kaul of Wyoming Downs, discussed the regulation of horse racing in Wyoming and provided a handout describing Wyoming Downs. (See Appendix 8). Mr. Nelson asked that any new legislation provide an even playing field between non profits and for profit businesses. Mr. Nelson gave a description of the instant racing machines that were disallowed after the governor vetoed HB156 and stated that they were very different from e-bingo machines. Mr. Kaul stated that non-profit gambling needs to be regulated with teeth similar to the regulation of horse racing and pari-Mutuel events.
Sherry Fields, a business woman in Douglas, provided testimony stating that the statutes are unambiguous but not realistic. She expressed concern that social games such as poker and football pools are considered illegal, and that playing in these games makes normal people into criminals. She provided her testimony in writing. (See Appendix 9).
John Vincent, Mayor of Riverton, testified that the community supports the Arapahoe tribes desire to build a Class III casino. He believes the casino will help the community with an unemployment problem. He admitted that the city had not done any formal studies into the indirect costs of increased community services, but he stated that he did not believe there would be any large problems. The community is more interested in being proactive to ensure that facilities would be built with those needs in mind.
Tom Pagel, Casper Chief of Police, testified that inconsistency in interpreting and enforcing the current gambling statutes is the biggest problem that needs to be overcome. Regulation at the state level would solve this.
Father Dave Quarter, Director of Safehouse and Grandma's Pickle Parlor in Cheyenne, stated that too much money is changing hands in the non-profit gambling that is allowed for the state to continue without state regulation.
Mike Hayes, Wyoming Sheriff's and Chief's Association wanted clarification of the statutes, a state gaming commission to regulate gambling, background checks of people involved in gambling, and statewide enforcement and training of local law enforcement personnel. He stated that he thought a gaming commission would be too expensive to be self supporting through gaming taxes and would need support from the general fund. Mr. Hayes agreed to provide the committee with information he could gather about other states that have self-supporting gaming commissions. (See Appendix 10).
Mr. Lloyd Carson and Mr. Thelton Skipper, citizens, provided their comments on gambling verbally and in writing. (See Appendix 11).
The committee was provided with written comments from Quentin Richardson, Converse County Attorney. (See Appendix 12).
Committee
Discussion
After a short recess the committee reconvened. The committee asked to have a bill providing for a non-binding referendum, with the inclusion of an appropriation for the cost of the referendum, brought for a vote at the next meeting. (See Appendix 13 – 06 LSO 0038).
With respect to gambling legislation, Senator Massie moved to create a subcommittee to start a draft with several potential improvements to the current legislation. The bill would include creation of a gaming commission. The motion passed. The committee was provided with copies of previously proposed legislation for their review. (See Appendix 14).
Representative Gingery moved to sponsor a committee bill that prohibited "social gambling" by repealing W.S. 6-7-101(a)(iii)(E). The motion failed.
The committee agreed after a straw poll that the legislation will not provide for e-bingo.
The committee asked that draft legislation for FBI fingerprinting and increased handles (take out percentages) be brought to them for a vote at their next meeting but chose to put off the question of sponsoring a bill to allow instant racing machines until a later date.
The committee recessed at 2:25 pm.
Tour
of Sinks Canyon State Park
The committee was given a tour of Sinks Canyon State Park by Darrel Trembly, Southwest Regional Manager, and Sinks Canyon Supervisor. The tour included an overview of the history of the park and the improvements that have been made to the visitor center in recent years.
Tour
of 789 Bingo Hall
The committee was given a tour of the 789 Bingo Hall on the Wind River reservation by Jim Conrad, General Manager. Mr. Conrad answered questions about the new casino being built, the tribe's expectations regarding the facility, and showed the committee the blue prints for the facility. Mr. Conrad also answered questions regarding the regulation of gambling on the reservation under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act. The Chairman of the Arapahoe Tribe addressed the committee and the committee was treated to homemade snacks provided by the Tribe.
The committee reconvened at 8:05 am. on May 17.
Care and management of state collections
Linda Reynolds, Governmental Affairs Liaison for the Department of State Parks and Cultural Resources showed a video describing the facilities problems facing the state museum and state archives. She then updated the committee on the process for hiring a consultant to address those needs. They expect a final report in September.
Art Reese, Cultural Resources Division Administrator described the changes that have occurred in the SHPO. He explained that federal law requires each state to have a SHPO and that their budget is approximately 60% federal funds, 20% from assessments and 20% from state funds.
SHPO includes seven programs: 1) national register, 2) Certified Local Government (CLG program, 3) § 106 permitting review, 4) cultural records, 5) state archeologist, 6) archeological survey and 7) monuments and markers program.
Mr. Reese explained that he was initially brought in as a consultant to offer advice on how to streamline the office. He then was asked to head up the changes that were suggested. The main change was to ensure that each program administrator was acting as a "cultural ombudsman" and could work in every area of the office. This approach eliminated the backlog problem that the department was experiencing when every project was dependant on review by the director. They have hired four new positions and are filling those positions with highly trained staff with at least a minimum of a master degree. They further changed their overall policy to one of customer service. Finally, they are currently renegotiating the Protocol which dictates how the department administers the National Historic Preservation Act within this state. This new protocol will streamline the process of project reviews and will ensure that the governor and the public are involved early in the review processes.
Mr. Reese answered questions about the § 106 permitting process, testifying that the state believes that a survey is not required for projects solely on private lands that do not use state or federal funding. He said that the SHPO reviews between 4,000 and 8,000 permit applications each year and they hope the new protocol will ensure prompt review of those applications. Mr. Reese also explained that they have redefined what constitutes a "cultural site" for purposes of permit processing. The office has increased the number of associated artifacts that would trigger the designation of a cultural site.
Carissa Mine Update
Joe Ellis, Superintendent of South Pass City, gave a presentation on the progress of refurbishing the Carissa Mine. The project has completed the first phase of cleaning up mine tailings and is in the process of refurbishing the exterior of the mine to its 1929 condition. The funding for the project has come from the Abandoned Mine Land reclamation account. The mine will ultimately be merged with the South Pass City Park to provide a broader visitor experience. The goal is to improve trails between the city and the mine and to move the visitor entrance to facilitate visits to both the mine and the city. He provided the committee with materials on the City and Carissa Mine. (See Appendix 15).
Ernest Over, President of the State Parks Commission stressed the importance of visitor centers and interpretation. He stated that these items support the economic health of the surrounding communities because it allows visitors to have longer visits.
Other
State Park Issues
The committee chose not to bring a bill waiving daily use fees on Sundays in the state parks which was promoted by Representative Jack Landon. (See Appendix 16).
The tour of South Pass City and the Carissa Mine were cancelled due to inclement weather.
The next meeting will be held on October 6 and 7, 2005 at Mammoth Hot Springs in Yellowstone National Park. Topics will include Game and Fish issues, tour of the new artifacts building, and, if approved as an additional topic by Management Council, a report from the state geologist on the monitoring of the Yellowstone super volcano.
The gaming subcommittee was chosen and includes: Senators Van Flatern and Massie and Representatives Iekel, Reese and Childers.
Co-chairman Childers moved to adjourn and the motion passed.
The Committee adjourned at 5:20 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Representative Pat Childers, Co-Chairman