Joint Travel Committee Minutes for Meeting July 16 & 17, 2007

Committee Meeting Information

July 16 & 17, 2007

Holiday Inn

Riverton, Wyoming

Committee Members Present

Senator Bruce Burns, Co-Chairman

Representative Pat Childers, Co-Chairman

Senator Pat Aullman

Senator Hank Coe

Senator Mike Massie

Representative Kermit Brown

Representative Bernadine Craft

Representative Kathy Davison

Representative Patrick Goggles

Representative Jerry Iekel

Representative Allen Jaggi

Representative Jim Slater

Representative Bill Thompson

Committee Members Absent

Senator Jayne Mockler

Legislative Service Office Staff

Lynda Cook, Staff Attorney

Others Present at Meeting

Senator Eli Bebout

Please refer to Appendix 1 to review the Committee Sign-in Sheet
for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting.

Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee Meeting Summary (July 16 & 17, 2007)

The Joint Travel, Recreation, Wildlife and Cultural Resources Interim Committee met in Riverton to consider issues related to state parks and cultural resources, state historic preservation office and game and fish.

The committee heard testimony regarding the needs of the state historic preservation office, the future funding needs of the department of state parks and cultural resources, potential for a new state veterans' museum and future funding needs of the game and fish department.

Call To Order (July 16, 2007)

Co-Chairman Burns called the meeting to order at 8:00 am. The following sections summarize the Committee proceedings by topic. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee Meeting Agenda.

Approval of Minutes

Minutes from the May, 2007 Committee meeting were approved.

State Parks and Historic Sites Fee Structure

Milward Simpson introduced members of his staff who were present. State Parks and Cultural Resources Commissioners Ernie Over, Carolyn Buff, Dan Barks and Bill Lucas were also introduced.

Mr. Simpson discussed the department’s fee structure and their goals for the future. Bill Westerfield provided a power point presentation. (Appendix 3). The department manages approximately 120,000 acres. The department is asking for $28.4 million for major maintenance backlog, $4.6 million for new services and $2.8 million for site interpretation.

In the past the legislature funded several bills for major maintenance but not to the level requested by the department. The $28.4 million requested for major maintenance includes $2.4 million for facilities and $26 million for roads. Mr. Simpson noted that the department has realized some efficiencies and has been able to limit the request because of it. However, the amount for roads has doubled due to an increase in costs for asphalt as determined by the Department of Transportation. A bill last year to fund the roads died in the senate transportation committee during the session. Co-Chairman Childers asked for very specific breakdown of where the work is needed. Mr. Simpson stated that these amounts will be part of the department’s budget request.

With respect to ongoing major maintenance, the department is tied to a funding formula through A&I that is based on priorities set by another department. This formula does not take into account the special nature of the Department’s sites and is considered volatile. WyDot receives $250,000 annually for the state parks road account and they charge 28% overhead. The department believes it really needs $1 million each year just to keep roads current.

Mr. Simpson stated that annual revenue from the enterprise account was $1.3 million in 2006.

The department needs approximately $9 million to bring 1,615 existing campsites up to a basic design standard. This includes increasing the pad size to accommodate the new, larger RV sizes and to clearly delineate the sites. This is necessary to help with overcrowding. In the power point presentation, the department showed a before and after video showing how the changes (specifically site delineation) improved conditions between the 2005 and 2007 July 4^th weekends at Glendo. Before, the chaotic parking due to the lack of delineation of sites had started killing tree root structures. Mr. Simpson noted that the overcrowding made it difficult for law enforcement to get to the sites. The same video from 2007 showed how simple post and cable delineation and overflow parking areas relieved the overcrowding tremendously. The department spent approximately $1 million for the improvements at Sandy Beach Campground in Glendo but the Bureau of Reclamation paid 50% of that amount.

Mr. Simpson stated that many visitors were redirected to other less crowded parts of the park.

Mr. Simpson noted that 80 people were arrested at Glendo during the week of July 4^th (mostly for underage drinking). The number of law enforcement personnel and the number of arrests were up from last year.

Joe Bonds noted that the true goal is to preserve the resources and to make the parks a safe place for Wyoming families to return to.

The second goal of improved services is to bring state parks up to a basic level of services, which, in the department's view, includes the need to bring water and electricity to sites. The enhanced facilities are necessary to accommodate handicapped visitors and others. Generators currently cannot be run at night and people on oxygen cannot stay when they cannot get electricity. There was discussion about whether the surrounding private campgrounds are concerned about the competition. Mr. Westerfield noted that the biggest parks do not have competition close by. The department is proposing to provide electricity to only ¼ of the sites in the system. The $4.6 million request includes the electrical upgrades, adding 6 hiking trails and staffing. Three million dollars of that would be ongoing costs for hiring 20 new FTE employees and 47 seasonal employees. Mr. Simpson noted that department employees undertake various roles to get the jobs done.

The final leg of the department's request is to fund site interpretation. 2007 Senate File 60 partially funded this request but there is still $2.5 million needed in one time funding. They also need $317,000 in ongoing costs for 1 full time person and 15 seasonal employees. Senator Massie noted that this request does not include another $12 million to interpret the Carissa mine site. He suggested that the abandoned mine land money the state is to receive from the federal government could be used for that purpose and to educate the public on the importance and history of mining and energy development.

The department had several suggestions for funding these projects. One possibility is a general fund appropriation. The Legislature could also change the fee structure to reflect what other states are charging. The department provided a regional comparison of fees in surrounding states. (Appendix 4). It was also suggested that the Legislature add a $10 additional fee on recreational vehicles and additional $2 per vehicle fee on registrations. Mr. Bonds provided a comparison of RV fees in surrounding states (Appendix 5).

Park fees are set by statute and were last changed in 1999.

There was discussion regarding the willingness of people to pay increased fees. The department noted that a visitor survey indicated that the public supports certain fee increases. (Appendix 6) Mr. Simpson requested the committee to sponsor legislation to increase fees but noted that would not be enough to solve their challenges.

The department was asked to provide the committee with information on how increased services (i.e. electricity) will affect visitation. Mr. Westerfield noted that several state parks are nearing capacity every single weekend of the summer. Increased services may not necessarily result in increased visitation but would allow them to charge more money for those services, and would also address what visitors are asking for.

There was discussion regarding the provision of potable water and other health and safety issues. The department noted that there are some issues but these projects have been funded through the enterprise fund on an ongoing basis.

The department suggested eliminating annual permits or at least eliminating reduced price second permits.

The department is requesting one time funding of $32.5 million and $3.3 million in ongoing funding. Twenty-six million dollars of the one time funding is before the transportation committee because it is road funding. The department would like to see increased fees, elimination of second permits or limitation in number of them available, implementation of registration fees and authority to charge for electrical hookups.

Senator Massie noted that the ongoing funding needs to be part of the department’s budget. They should ask for the one time funding incrementally as they can spend it.

Carolyn Buff, commissioner, suggested that she is concerned that deferring critical maintenance will eventually result in a crisis situation. Mr. Lucas, commissioner, noted that roads are not just a one-time cost – there is continual upkeep. Dan Barks, commissioner, testified that the commissioners support the department in its assessment of their needs.

The committee asked LSO to draft a bill increasing fees across the board by an amount to meet the cost of living increase since they were last changed plus specific fee increases to meet what would be supported as shown in the visitor survey. The bill should provide the department with authority to charge for electrical hookups. Senator Massie asked the department to provide the committee with a long range plan for how the increased funding would be used.

The committee will send a letter to the transportation committee supporting a phase in of the $26 million needed for roads over 5 years. The letter should also go to the appropriations committee. The letter should include support for the entire $32 million needed and should be presented to this committee for review at the next meeting. The letter should include support for increases in costs due to inflation due to the phase in. The letter should separate the amounts out. LSO will work with the department on this letter.

There was discussion regarding limiting second permits to one per household. The committee chose not to pursue this.

Gary Collins, tribal liaison for the Northern Arapahoe Tribe was introduced by Representative Goggles.

Motorboat Tax.

Joe Bonds testified that the motorboat gas tax is expiring. W.S. 39-17-111 has a sunset. The tax started in 1991. It deducts an amount collected on fuel used by motorboats (estimated) and gives that to the department to improve boating and recreational facilities at state parks and recreation areas. The department can grant some of this money to local governments for the same purposes. Mr. Bonds provided a presentation on how the money has been used and the projects it has supported. (Appendix 7).

There was discussion about how the formula was created and whether it reflects current motor boat usage. Gathering new information would help to address that issue.

Brad Hill provided a presentation on the off road vehicle portion of the gas tax. He described how the monies have been used. The program has created the only ATV simulator in the country to teach people how to ride safely. He also described the program's efforts to increase opportunities for ORV trails. (Appendix 8).

The committee directed LSO to draft a bill extending the sunset on both distributions to 2013.

State Historic Preservation Office

Mary Hopkins testified regarding the SHPO program. The program recently received a $25,000 grant for local rural America preservation training courses from the National Park Service. They will use the money to train local communities in historic preservation.

Ms. Hopkins reiterated her presentation from the previous meeting describing the sources of funding for the program and the programs they administer.

She provided a draft of the program’s Comprehensive Plan and noted that comments may be submitted until August 10, 2007. (Appendix 9).

Ms. Hopkins discussed the need for historic context development. She stated that 31% of the sites in the state have not been evaluated to determine if they are eligible for historic preservation. Historic context planning will streamline Section 106 reviews and aid in evaluations of sites. It would provide standards and consistency in decision making. The contexts could be developed in phases starting with schools, New Deal, irrigation and homesteading in southwest Wyoming contexts. Phase II would include hunter gatherer, southern Wyoming transportation and mining contexts. It was noted that the contexts will eliminate duplication and differences in opinion. The contexts will save companies as well as SHPO a great deal of time and money. The office will be asking for the money to complete these contexts in their budget request. The office will also increase their user fees to help pay for this.

The office is in need of inputting projects into the graphical information system. Only 54% of sites and 64% of projects have been input. Additionally, there is currently only one curator managing over 2 million artifacts at the University of Wyoming. The office will be asking for an additional position to hire a full time assistant curator. The new facility will open September 27, 2007.

Ms. Hopkins discussed the centennial ranch program which recognizes one-hundred year old ranches. She discussed the office of state archaeologist. She also discussed the office’s competitive local grant program which provides funding for local preservation. They would like to expand this program to allow grants to private individuals.

Ms. Hopkins provided a letter in support of the SHPO budget request. (Appendix 10) and a letter of support from the city of Rock Springs (Appendix 11). She provided the committee with a list of certified local government contacts. (Appendix 12).

The office will be asking for all these items in their budget request, but they have been told that they will not be given any new positions.

Jim Davis, City of Evanston, testified in support of the office and the work that they do.

Representative Thompson commended Mr. Davis on his work with historic preservation.

Gary Collins testified regarding tribal historic preservation offices and encouraged the offices to work together.

The committee directed LSO to include support for the SHPO request for two positions in the letter to the appropriations committee.

State Veteran’s Museum

Larry Barttelbort, Director of the Military Department, introduced Steven Reynolds, Vice Commander of the American Legion, and Bev Holmes. He provided a letter from Major General Ed Wright asking the committee to support the department in asking for a Phase I feasibility study on whether the current building is in need of changes to support a state veteran’s museum. He believes that the study could give them an independent view of whether the current location is even acceptable. Major General Wright supports the transfer of the museum to the military department. (Appendix 13).

Bev Holmes testified regarding a National Guard museum in Cheyenne. The building has been acquired by the Wyoming National Guard. She stated that this does not alleviate the need for a veteran’s museum but they are very excited about it. She didn’t see any reason the military department couldn’t combine the two museums at the Cheyenne building. Larry Barttelbort stated that the current museum in Casper should continue to operate in its current location. The museum in Cheyenne could work in conjunction with any other museums the department operates. The military department has discussed a third museum that would take up all the other pieces of military history.

It was noted that the new proposal for the Casper museum would double the budget currently being administered by state parks. The National Guard museum would be supported by the adjutant general through the use of volunteers plus one full time person to act as a curator for the entire military department.

It was noted that the ultimate goal is for the two current museums to be self supporting through private foundations.

There was discussion regarding a new military department headquarters on FE Warren air force base. The adjutant general would like to see a display area at that headquarters.

The committee asked LSO to draft a bill transferring the museum to the military department including all the rights and responsibilities but specifying that a new lease be entered. In the meantime the committee would like a letter of support to the appropriations committee for the current funding request for the state parks, which is understood would be transferred pursuant to the B11 process to the military department if the legislation passed. Finally the committee would write a letter to the state building commission in support of a Phase I feasibility study on the Casper building.

In the meantime the military department will take the idea of a military museum to the veterans' stakeholders and get further input from them.

Steven Reynolds, American Legion, testified in support of the transfer of the Casper museum to the military department.

Larry Barttelbort agreed to bring to the next meeting a plan for curation of the items in the military department's control.

The meeting recessed and the Department of State Parks and Cultural Recessed took the committee on a tour of Boysen State Park.

Game and Fish Department

The meeting was reconvened at 7:00 am, July 17, 2007.

Senators Coe, Massie & Mockler and Rep. Davison were absent.

Terry Cleveland introduced game and fish commissioners and staff.

Funding of Sensitive Species Issues

Mr. Cleveland provided a proposal to fund a sensitive species program through general funds. (Appendix 14). The cost of the program would be about $5 million annually. The department provided two proposals – one comprehensive costing $5 million and one scaled back version costing approximately $3 million. Both involve hiring additional personnel. If additional personnel are not added they will continue to do the inadequate job he feels they have been doing, or they may transfer some people from traditional jobs. The department is concerned that this would raise concerns in the hunting and fishing community. The proposals include objectives that can be realistically met.

Concern was expressed that even with the comprehensive proposal the department only envisions meeting 50% of the objectives. There was discussion about the requirement that the commission provide a flexible system for the management of all wildlife in the state except predators. The department understood that as a mandate. If they ignore the mandate there could be consequences resulting in listing of sensitive species. Listing would affect every constituent group in the state. Mr. Cleveland noted that the state needs this information to prevent listing. Unless a different course of action is taken, Mr. Cleveland believes additional species will be listed based on inadequate information.

The committee asked LSO to draft a bill requiring these programs involving non-game species to go through the budget process. The bill would require an annual report on meeting the objectives.

Ben Lamb, Wyo. Conservation Voters, testified in support of the concept that this is the most important issue in this state. The ESA should be used as a last act for a desperate situation. He testified that it is important to remember that politics and science don’t always mix. The department should be able to do its job without too much political intervention.

Jim Magagna, Wyoming Stockgrowers Association, testified in support of this concept with annual reporting to ensure results.

Pam Dill, Nature Conservancy, testified in support of the concept. The Nature Conservancy looks forward to supporting the bill.

Bob Wharf, Sportsmen for Fish & Wildlife, agreed with previous comments. His constituency is committed to helping get other legislators to support it.

Scott Zimmerman, Rock Mountain Farm Bureau, agreed that this is very important. He wants the committee to ensure that all the legislative committees dealing with this issue – including agriculture and minerals – are on the same page.

Mark Winland, Wyoming Wildlife Federation, testified in support of the bill. While the WWF would prefer political independence they agree this is necessary.

Kathy Purvis, Trout Unlimited, spoke in support of the concept.

Wolf Regulation

Mr. Cleveland provided copies of the department's proposed rules to manage wolves as trophy game animals. (Appendix 15). He noted that these are draft rules that won’t even be acted on unless the benchmarks in 2007 House Bill 213 are met.

Scott Talbot presented the draft rules to the committee. Currently the rules provide for management of wolves as trophy game animals only within the area designated under statute. There was discussion about using trapping as a method for controlling wolves. Mr. Talbot noted that his discussions with colleagues in Alberta, Alaska and the Yukon have found that hunting alone isn’t enough to control the population for management purposes. Snaring is not included in the hunting methods because of the concern of snaring non target animals.

Under the proposed rules bag limits would be limited to one per hunter, with reporting requirements to monitor populations.

Chapter 21 of the proposed rules describes the aggressive management techniques the department would use to control animals doing damage to private property. The rules propose additional steps above what is now done including issuance of a lethal take permits, authorization to USDA-Aphis to remove them and removal by the department. Lethal take permits will be renewed annually by the permittee.

The proposed rules provide for damage compensation. The department would pay for seven calves or sheep for every one carcass found. This ratio is based on peer reviewed studies of how many animals are actually killed for every animal carcass found.

Update on Grizzlies and Wolves

Mr. Cleveland provided an update on the delisting of wolves and grizzlies (Appendix 16). He is hoping to enter into an MOU with the national park service to do their best to manage for 8 breeding pairs within the park service lands. It is expected that the final delisting rule for wolves will be published and effective by mid January 2008.

The proposed 10j rule will require a higher threshold of breeding pairs before the state can initiate control actions to protect ungulates. The other issue that is problematic is a requirement for peer review of every action to control wolves. The department is going to push for programmatic peer review.

The litigation continues for the time being. Oral arguments before the court of appeals are set for August 13.

Grizzlies have been delisted but there are already two lawsuits regarding the delisting. The environmental groups have indicated that they will not be seeking an injunction against the delisting unless the state takes steps to allow hunting. The state could not implement rules to allow hunting until next fall.

Update on Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust Fund

Bob Budd, Chairman of the natural resource trust fund board, provided a listing of projects that have been funded by the trust fund. (Appendix 17). He anticipates there will be between 6 and 15 projects that would be considered large projects and will therefore be brought to the legislature for approval. He described the process by which projects are reviewed and awarded.

The next meeting was scheduled for October 9 & 10 in Sheridan.

Meeting Adjournment

There being no further business, Co-Chairman Pat Childers adjourned the meeting at 10:00 a.m. in order to allow committee members to travel to Cody for public meetings regarding delisting of wolves.

Respectfully submitted,

Bruce Burns, Co-Chairman Pat Childers, Co-Chairman

Appendix	Appendix Topic	Appendix Description	Appendix Provider
1	Committee Sign-In Sheet	Lists meeting attendees	Legislative Service Office
2	Committee Meeting Agenda	Provides an outline of the topics the Committee planned to address at meeting	Legislative Service Office
3	State Parks & Cultural Resources	Maintenance, Services and Interpretation in Wyoming State Parks and Historic Sites	State Parks & Cultural Resources
4	State Parks & Cultural Resources	Regional Comparison of Fees	State Parks & Cultural Resources
5	State Parks & Cultural Resources	Comparison of RV registration fees	State Parks & Cultural Resources
6	State Parks & Cultural Resources	2004 Visitor Study	State Parks & Cultural Resources
7	State Parks & Cultural Resources	Motorboat Gas tax presentation	State Parks & Cultural Resources
8	State Parks & Cultural Resources	Wyoming Trails presentation	State Parks & Cultural Resources
9	State Historic Preservation Office	On the Road to Preservation – SHPO Comprehensive Plan	State Historic Preservation Office
10	State Historic Preservation Office	Written testimony	Richard McGinity
11	State Historic Preservation Office	Written testimony	City of Rock Springs
12	State Historic Preservation Office	Wyoming Certified Local Government Contact List	State Historic Preservation Office
13	Veteran's Museum	Written testimony	MG Ed Wright
14	Game and Fish	Update of Sensitive Species Costs	Game and Fish
15	Game and Fish	Draft rules regarding wolves	Game and Fish
16	Game and Fish	Update on delisting of wolves and grizzlies	Game and Fish
17	Natural Resource Trust Fund	Trust fund project status list	Bob Budd