2009 – 2010 JAC BUDGET HEARINGS 12/14/07
0 ~ 12/14/2007 8:03:13 AM ~ 5th day of hearings--December 14, 2007
0 ~ 12/14/2007 8:03:13 AM ~ Start Recording
1 ~ 12/14/2007 8:03:14 AM ~ Chairman Philp: Called meting to order . Fleetor for Wyoming state Bar--introduce his people. Very pleased to be here. Brief explanation--relationship between us and the Supreme Court. We are the arm to the Supreme Court. Once in Feb and once in July. As procedural matter actual costs paid for by applicants of those taking the bar. Send their money into the bar and they give it back to us to administer the test and grade. Kind of a roundabout process. Very simply, very simple budget standard budget is 105K asking for addl 50K to expand our expenditures based on past history. Number of applicants applying to take the bar is moving steadily upward. 77 already scheduled for the February testing cycle. Over last four years we have had 578 testing. Expenses are gradually increasing---asking for the money to meet the increase in testing...travel and like expenses. Will be happy to address any questions.
5:09 ~ 12/14/2007 8:08:22 AM ~ Nicholas: What are the fees now.
5:16 ~ 12/14/2007 8:08:29 AM ~ Bookkeeper to give those numbers.
5:27 ~ 12/14/2007 8:08:40 AM ~ $450.00 to take the test whether on motion or testing.
5:51 ~ 12/14/2007 8:09:04 AM ~ Special revenue account--what is the balance right now
6:04 ~ 12/14/2007 8:09:17 AM ~ Don't have that money at this point not a very large sum
6:21 ~ 12/14/2007 8:09:34 AM ~ Harshman: When was that lastlooked at
6:38 ~ 12/14/2007 8:09:51 AM ~ Dover: Done recently increased 50 dollars.
6:58 ~ 12/14/2007 8:10:11 AM ~ Meier: 578 taking the exam how many actual attorneys did that increase?
7:22 ~ 12/14/2007 8:10:35 AM ~ Dover: about 70% pass...and become attorneys.
7:37 ~ 12/14/2007 8:10:50 AM ~ Philp: Any other questions?
7:45 ~ 12/14/2007 8:10:58 AM ~ Jones: How many times can they take the exam?
7:56 ~ 12/14/2007 8:11:09 AM ~ Dover: There is a point where we tell them don't come back anymore---4 times.
8:21 ~ 12/14/2007 8:11:34 AM ~ Philp: Any other questions? Thank you cery much.
8:33 ~ 12/14/2007 8:11:46 AM ~ Philp: Next is the commission on judicial conduct.
8:59 ~ 12/14/2007 8:12:13 AM ~ Mike O'Donnell: Normally report on education...here on behalf of the commission because of some family emergencies. Only two exceptions. Does not come to you through the gove budget but rather as an independent. I used to be disciplinary counsel. One is for 12K to bring attorney up to market rate...her salray in the mid range, the 2nd is for 4K to support a new webbsite, 2K for hosting 1K for out of state travel...one traveling event to Chicago to receive new employees. I think it would be appropriate to give you a little info There is some litigation that I am involved in holding up 100 mill dollars for the state. Not speaking to the merits of the litigation but it is getting held up in one district court...that is precisely the kind of thing that this commision would be reviewing. Potentila for bias of the judiciary in their courtroom---fairly stable but a little increase of judicial misconduct.
14:46 ~ 12/14/2007 8:17:59 AM ~ Nicholas: Base budget for 420 series is up to 7K dollars, 5K that they cannot account for. Base budget to your standard budget...how do you build the standard budget.
15:46 ~ 12/14/2007 8:18:59 AM ~ O'Donnel: I will have them do that
16:02 ~ 12/14/2007 8:19:15 AM ~ Nicholas: Their assessment is that the director's salary is about where it shoul,dbe. Did you go to the HR for that information.
16:41 ~ 12/14/2007 8:19:54 AM ~ Nicholas: The supreme court is trying to run their own budget. Salaries--it is not appropriate to not go to A&I. Is she an attorney?
17:30 ~ 12/14/2007 8:20:43 AM ~ O'Donnell: No she is not but she has 20 years service.
17:50 ~ 12/14/2007 8:21:03 AM ~ Nicholas: Did they go to HR for that assessment?
18:07 ~ 12/14/2007 8:21:20 AM ~ O'Donnell: I have an excel spreadsheet that shows similar salaries and what the rate of pay for simillar.
18:41 ~ 12/14/2007 8:21:54 AM ~ Nicholas: A&I respectively disagreed.
18:59 ~ 12/14/2007 8:22:13 AM ~ Nicholas: I have info from them that the salary is in line without the increase.
19:27 ~ 12/14/2007 8:22:40 AM ~ Job: I interpreted that they agreed.
19:39 ~ 12/14/2007 8:22:52 AM ~ O'Donnell: I do agree with that assessment.
19:54 ~ 12/14/2007 8:23:07 AM ~ Nicholas: Let's make sure.
20:04 ~ 12/14/2007 8:23:17 AM ~ A&I: We did think her current salary with the 4% increase is in line.
20:41 ~ 12/14/2007 8:23:54 AM ~ Nicholas: The 12K would put her over .
21:02 ~ 12/14/2007 8:24:15 AM ~ O'Donnell: I will go back to the executive director and get a letter.
21:24 ~ 12/14/2007 8:24:37 AM ~ Nicholas: So she would be setting her on salary.
21:41 ~ 12/14/2007 8:24:54 AM ~ O'Donnel: That is not true. The salary was set.
21:59 ~ 12/14/2007 8:25:12 AM ~ Nicholas: I respectfully disagree that there is a seperation.
22:31 ~ 12/14/2007 8:25:44 AM ~ Meier: When we are looking at the base budgets going up each year. We need to determine what we would have to pay to replace these employees if they were to leave tomorrow. We need to be looking at this as a business. And as this gets to be bigger and bigger. We have got to looking at it a lot closer. Can you replace this employee at $70 K if she left.
24:09 ~ 12/14/2007 8:27:22 AM ~ O'Donnel: That is difficult. Let me give you a list of her duties....(he outlined the duties) a nightmare...skill set that is very organized, whether or not that requires a degree or not I cannot say. Institutional knowledge is also key...we are not privy to earlier commissions...she carries that knowledge...don't know how to quanitfy that.
25:53 ~ 12/14/2007 8:29:06 AM ~ NIcholas: With respect, no employee can replaced wheter we regard the personal skills, but we do know is that those who ...the attorney general would also tell us that their attorneys are underpaid. It is natural and common for boards and directors to think their people are under paid. (Gave some examples) The issue I am bringing up is that I understand the courts wanting to be independent BUT they do not have the skills to manage budgets or hiring. A&I needs to be administering that part....it is simply unfair to do otherwise. In this c ase HR is saying that this salary with her 4% puts her in line with other directors around the state. It is ok to have your own budget but you have to use HR for these services.
29:30 ~ 12/14/2007 8:32:43 AM ~ O'Donnell: I am mindful to your comments. When I look at the actual budget for this commission. A little less than 70 K for the director? Mr. Baker who was on the budget believes that to be the case.
30:45 ~ 12/14/2007 8:33:58 AM ~ Nicholas: What is your question?
30:53 ~ 12/14/2007 8:34:06 AM ~ O'Donnell: I show that the salary is 69K.
31:33 ~ 12/14/2007 8:34:46 AM ~ Nicholas: 64K plus the 4% increase. If you look at the budget narrative. The salary was 67K and then 69K That would take that up to a 79K salary with the 12K.
32:55 ~ 12/14/2007 8:36:08 AM ~ O'Donnell: I am still struggling with the numbers. I want to come back with the information
33:20 ~ 12/14/2007 8:36:33 AM ~ Nicholas: Jill is here and we would like you to use her to determine.
33:39 ~ 12/14/2007 8:36:52 AM ~ Nicholas: We recognize the difference and so are we but we excpect that the salaries must be determined by HR.
34:21 ~ 12/14/2007 8:37:34 AM ~ Philp: I agree, we have to make sure that there is an equitable across state government.
34:58 ~ 12/14/2007 8:38:12 AM ~ Philp: No other questions--thank you very much.
35:09 ~ 12/14/2007 8:38:22 AM ~ O'Donnell: Thank you
35:16 ~ 12/14/2007 8:38:29 AM ~ Philp: Next up is board of Parole
35:31 ~ 12/14/2007 8:38:44 AM ~ Pat Anderson: Kind of exciting to be here as this agency continues in its third year. Pleased to be here submitting our third request. No exceptions this year but I would like to talk to you about what the board does. As the releasing authority...Members ofl the board meet twice a month trael to all DOT facitilities. Visited several states...no contracts currently in Nevada, tx...the importance of the board is to hand out parole...the second role is actually supervising their transition back into society. Supervision is providied into the community...gurads against...long term chances of becoming members of society. About 30% come back to us. Alternatives to long term incarceration. Failure to report...on the fiscal side parole can be very beneficial . Building in Torrington...what next . Need to be looking at that as we discover how long it is taking Torrington to get off the ground. Number of reasons...one is many of the inmates who are denied parole is becasue the board thinks the inmates are not adequately trained for release. No exception request but I would be happy to answer any question.
41:25 ~ 12/14/2007 8:44:38 AM ~ Philp: How do you arrive at travel expenses.
41:38 ~ 12/14/2007 8:44:51 AM ~ Pat: Net to zero...we had more money based on our usage and we shifted some of that money...of the 8K we had for out of state we shifted some to suipplies...IT purposes..reduce out state by $3900.
42:58 ~ 12/14/2007 8:46:11 AM ~ Nicholas: I did not catch the 40%?
43:07 ~ 12/14/2007 8:46:20 AM ~ Pat: In 2006 1100 inmates were eligible for parole...only about 600 opted to appear before the board for parole.
43:48 ~ 12/14/2007 8:47:01 AM ~ Nicholas: They probably think they will just burn their numbers and then they don't have to be under supervison.
44:26 ~ 12/14/2007 8:47:39 AM ~ Pat: That is probably correct.
44:35 ~ 12/14/2007 8:47:48 AM ~ Nicholas: You are have reoffense and they go back in...what is the rate then?
45:12 ~ 12/14/2007 8:48:25 AM ~ Pat: they have been tracking rates for three years and the rate is 30% reoffend. If parole direction---the rate is lower.
45:53 ~ 12/14/2007 8:49:06 AM ~ Nicholas: That is facinating. How do you know if you have enough field supervisers. But on the another question..your side of the fence looking in do you think you have enough staff.
46:54 ~ 12/14/2007 8:50:07 AM ~ Pat: I beliieve there is a need for more officers. I believe the load per officers is too high. Public safety iss the biggest issue. An ideal--can parole be effective..it can be done in a much more effective way. Should we be able to more quickly assess them when they get out. Unfortunately if we stretch them too thin there is a higher probablity of return.
48:55 ~ 12/14/2007 8:52:08 AM ~ Philp: Further questions?
49:02 ~ 12/14/2007 8:52:15 AM ~ Petersen: By monthly ...
49:13 ~ 12/14/2007 8:52:26 AM ~ Pat: The board actually travels. Board staff and the secretary travel to the locations and sits. Main mode of travel is the gov jet. The hearings average three to four days.
50:08 ~ 12/14/2007 8:53:21 AM ~ Petersen: Do you have more hearings...is it subject to....
50:27 ~ 12/14/2007 8:53:40 AM ~ Pat: The chairman sets the schedule and it is generally done one year in advance. Report for the board to reveiw. Need to know well in advance. Pretty well locked in.
51:08 ~ 12/14/2007 8:54:21 AM ~ Petersen: Final question. We have housed many inmates out of state and how many are housed out...
51:33 ~ 12/14/2007 8:54:46 AM ~ Pat: Okla. is the only one in use at this time with approx 500 inmantes.
51:53 ~ 12/14/2007 8:55:07 AM ~ Peterson: No past history of yuour travel history.. What wasyour past travel. With just Oklahoma why was the travel reduced only 3K?
52:44 ~ 12/14/2007 8:55:57 AM ~ Pat: History shows us since we started outsourcing...we believe it is prudent as we might be moving again...also what are we going to be charged...now it is 1200 dollars per flight hour using the gov jet.
54:00 ~ 12/14/2007 8:57:13 AM ~ Warren: Voting issue for ex convicts.
54:25 ~ 12/14/2007 8:57:38 AM ~ Pat: Boards ability to restore voting rights is limited. Most of the files we review---they are generally not one time offenders. Certainly the political machine could be more effective. Eligible people just do not know..
55:27 ~ 12/14/2007 8:58:40 AM ~ Philp: Thank you very much.
55:38 ~ 12/14/2007 8:58:51 AM ~ Nicholas: Prison capacity should be looking at ...
56:01 ~ 12/14/2007 8:59:14 AM ~ Nicholas: Add in investigate prison capacity and parole effectiveness on interim topics.
56:25 ~ 12/14/2007 8:59:38 AM ~ Philp: District attorney in Casper.
56:38 ~ 12/14/2007 8:59:51 AM ~ Bloningen: Budget for Casper district. Some associated expenses. Moving on to the budget itself..our felonies are going down a little bit. 653 in 2002 and that has dropped to 425 for 2007. That is relatively good news. Sometimes there would be two or three cases opened for one person and they have now been consolidated. Job they are givving up is now the best job they will ever have. Rapid increase of misdemeanor files. Particulary DUIs These are not cloe calls they are running about 1.6 The staff is shifted to doing other things. We have shifted two to juvenile issues. Exceptions are mainly---between the annual increases...that issue has been well seved...continue to have those people...some personnel issues on the horizon but don't need to be addressed in this biennium. Secondly on the increase misdmeanors. Still a prevailing trend. One personnel exception one was a 3/4 person the work load in the juvenile department--we have moved to a full time postition. In addition a 3/4 position is virtually unfillable. Move it to a full time position which the gov has approved. The second exception is westlaw which has improved the way we..
1:03:07 ~ 12/14/2007 9:06:20 AM ~ Nicholas: How many attorneys?
1:03:17 ~ 12/14/2007 9:06:30 AM ~ Pat: 10
1:03:26 ~ 12/14/2007 9:06:39 AM ~ Nicholas: On these wetlaw contract who negotiates it and how do you know that you are getting the right rate?
1:03:48 ~ 12/14/2007 9:07:01 AM ~ Pat: That is my job and they seem to be relatively consistent with...On thing that comes to bear here--not alot of negotiation.
1:04:25 ~ 12/14/2007 9:07:38 AM ~ Nicholas: Mike can you take a look at what we are paying for westlaw for all agencies around the state.
1:04:57 ~ 12/14/2007 9:08:10 AM ~ McVay: The competitor is LexusNexus.
1:05:21 ~ 12/14/2007 9:08:34 AM ~ Pat: Why aren't we getting a group rate and I wonder why we are not moving across the state.
1:05:50 ~ 12/14/2007 9:09:03 AM ~ Nicholas: Can you begin to restrict your licesnes...it is all open for discussion. It is a significant amount that we are sending out each year.
1:06:30 ~ 12/14/2007 9:09:43 AM ~ Mike: I think that we should be looking at that. The other exception is for a new vehicle. Ours is 6 years old. Increase on instate travel....out of state....exception requests are relatively small. A bit of sticker shock...relatively limited. Any questions?
1:09:01 ~ 12/14/2007 9:12:14 AM ~ Philp: Looks like you are getting off easy.
1:09:14 ~ 12/14/2007 9:12:27 AM ~ Meier: I heard that you were having a hard time getting a courthouse built.
1:09:30 ~ 12/14/2007 9:12:43 AM ~ Mike: We defeated a bond issue or rather a special election...we successfully ...the costs have increased so much that we are having some resistance. At least two years before that courthouse will be built. Criminal docketts take precedence. It impacts those in the civil arena...criminal justice is the only game in time. Constant merry go round..we are expecting any criminal case to go to court within 60 days except murder which is done within 120 days. A very significant problem. Why did it take so long to get back to court...Seeing some pull back. 26 mill dollars on that courthouse.
1:12:36 ~ 12/14/2007 9:15:49 AM ~ Meier: DUI I am from Goshen county and the problem is that htye are coming in with their 6th offense and wondering how many peole are coming in with their....
1:13:30 ~ 12/14/2007 9:16:43 AM ~ Mike: One is that it is presently a two year max and the proposal is to increaset hat to 5 years. Timing issue we have 4 in five---we are filing 12-15 in a year. Reluctance is to give time in the lower courts. We have a situation where a guy is on parole for DUI and he got another one. There are a couple things out there.....no doubt about it Wyoming is a Drinking state. Alcohol still is our number 1 issues. So in fact some of the most serious situations are not even reported to the DOT.
1:16:09 ~ 12/14/2007 9:19:22 AM ~ Warren: Follow up I think New Mexico passed....interlock...may be extreme but I wonder if you see that working.
1:16:54 ~ 12/14/2007 9:20:07 AM ~ Mike: Just beginning to see our interlock situations. We have people blowing for other people in the car. We have issues with the fact that the system was defective. Getting it working is very difficult and the thing that has not been looked at...Second issue that came up there...interlock is a fairly expensive process. Many offenders can not afford the device. I think the barroom talk is prevelant..
1:19:05 ~ 12/14/2007 9:22:18 AM ~ Philp: In New Mexico they make them wear pink. I don't know why pink....color of choice...further questions? Drive careful going home.
1:19:52 ~ 12/14/2007 9:23:04 AM ~ Pause
1:19:52 ~ 12/14/2007 9:53:19 AM ~ Resume
1:19:52 ~ 12/14/2007 9:53:19 AM ~
1:19:54 ~ 12/14/2007 9:53:21 AM ~ Nicholas: Let's go ahead and get started. We have a quorum.
1:20:14 ~ 12/14/2007 9:53:42 AM ~ Scott: Looks like it is on right now...as far as the exception request...with regard to exceptions...IT needs through CIO fairly well speeled out...turnover on servers as well as software.. We have the top ....work with them...need for the computer equip was approved by the CIO. Paying someone twice that to get us caught up..I have approx two to two and a half years of backup...filing on a daily basis..maintain a workable level...think I can get that done cheaper...I can do it for about 15K a year. temporary deal as far as I consider.
1:23:23 ~ 12/14/2007 9:56:50 AM ~ Nicholas: Want to talk about your exception #2...salaries. Thought you would get them in line ---actuallyu in your standrd budget--thought you would bring them into line...did yhou also provide them with the 4%.
1:24:22 ~ 12/14/2007 9:57:50 AM ~ Scott: Yes they did receive that..
1:24:30 ~ 12/14/2007 9:57:58 AM ~ Nicholas: Did you think about red line them to get them more in line.
1:24:46 ~ 12/14/2007 9:58:14 AM ~ Nicholas: I thought I had this talk with McVay..like the UW..you have given them the 4% on top of the market...
1:25:53 ~ 12/14/2007 9:59:21 AM ~ Scott: As far as the reclassification..it should be noted that the market raises this last year...I did not want to give those raises. They were reclassified..
1:26:56 ~ 12/14/2007 10:00:23 AM ~ Nicholas: Is it the 167K for the biennium
1:27:14 ~ 12/14/2007 10:00:42 AM ~ Scott: That is correct and that is current as of April. Based on some of the salary changes...I am expecting a 52K savings in the rest of the biennium.
1:27:56 ~ 12/14/2007 10:01:23 AM ~ Nicholas: I would like you to get with the budget people and provide us with a plan on how you are going to get these people in line.
1:28:32 ~ 12/14/2007 10:02:00 AM ~ Scott: Yes I will do that..in way of explanaiton today...salary change here is the graph I gave everyone. Red positions are of the current....shifting of positions..the green is the overall savings each month. This was initial...they have changed a little bit. I just want it to be known that as far as fiscal ersponsibility...
1:30:31 ~ 12/14/2007 10:03:58 AM ~ Nicholas: I just want to make sure you have all the tools. Meet with HR to make sure they are marketed correctly. If they are too low... Attorney 2 I wonder where they should be if HR set the salary.
1:31:29 ~ 12/14/2007 10:04:56 AM ~ Scott: New deputy is being paid 6100 instead of the 8100 for the former deputy.
1:32:05 ~ 12/14/2007 10:05:32 AM ~ Nicholas: Are you getting your slaries from HR or are you setting them yourself?
1:32:28 ~ 12/14/2007 10:05:56 AM ~ Scott: I am not pulling them out of the air. Gradually through turn over trying to bring them into line.
1:32:53 ~ 12/14/2007 10:06:21 AM ~ Nicholas: Since they are a state agency..why are they not getting their salaries from you?
1:33:19 ~ 12/14/2007 10:06:47 AM ~ McVay: Classified positions they subscribe to general HR policy.
1:33:37 ~ 12/14/2007 10:07:05 AM ~ Nicholas: We have elected county attorneys they have to go to the county commissioers for approval. I think the DA should be on the same process...
1:34:17 ~ 12/14/2007 10:07:45 AM ~ McVay: They have done that I have no issue with either one of them.
1:34:36 ~ 12/14/2007 10:08:03 AM ~ Nicholas: When we go through markup and we put the 4% in...
1:35:00 ~ 12/14/2007 10:08:28 AM ~ McVay: We lag the market by one year...byt the time you withhold the money they will get behind the market..
1:35:28 ~ 12/14/2007 10:08:56 AM ~ Nicholas: Shouln't they be able to redistrbute those funds to others?
1:35:52 ~ 12/14/2007 10:09:20 AM ~ McVay: I am not disptuing that.
1:36:03 ~ 12/14/2007 10:09:31 AM ~ Nicholas: I think we should be at least talking about it. The same as UW. The narrative led me to believe that some of your people are still out of the band.
1:36:51 ~ 12/14/2007 10:10:18 AM ~ Scott: Just based on the changes I have made in the last year, I think we are getting there. The gov gave some funds for the attorneys...fiscal responsibility I take very seriously.
1:37:41 ~ 12/14/2007 10:11:08 AM ~ Scott: Any other questions.
1:37:53 ~ 12/14/2007 10:11:20 AM ~ Philp: No other questions----that will do it.
1:38:13 ~ 12/14/2007 10:11:40 AM ~ Berger: Just highlight that we did get information from the VEteran's commission.
1:38:30 ~ 12/14/2007 10:11:57 AM ~ Jorgenson: When we get to the session are we expected to be here the Saturday before.
1:38:59 ~ 12/14/2007 10:12:27 AM ~ Sommers: There is a training for new members.
1:39:16 ~ 12/14/2007 10:12:44 AM ~ Philp: Nothing we will stand adjourned!
1:39:32 ~ 12/14/2007 10:12:59 AM ~ Stop Recording