09-10 JAC BUDGET HEARINGS 01/20/09

      0 ~ 1/20/2009 4:09:21 PM ~ JAC Call Back Hearings--January 20, 2008

      0 ~ 1/20/2009 4:09:21 PM ~ Start Recording

      5 ~ 1/20/2009 4:09:27 PM ~ Nicholas: Apologize for the delay.  Wanted you to look at your budget again  and see what changes...

     30 ~ 1/20/2009 4:09:51 PM ~ Chief Justice:  First this would be a good time to talk about a block grant...no...scratch that off..the second thing I was going to think about a 50%  anything over thirty is close to 50.  We looked at the three projects and looked at how we could cut back on it..what we came back with is two options...the first is the one we perfer..the second is a bigger cut but makes the first one impossible.  I thought I would have Joann explain how we got to these two set of records.

   2:45 ~ 1/20/2009 4:12:06 PM ~ Joann:  Our original request was approximately 8 million...efiling system and the e citation software.  In this option we would request...case management system from design all the way through...for a salary of 75 K  we do have one time expenses and ongoing...employee paid benefits...employee computer...e citation scaled back...maintenance and support of that system would be approximately..double in the next biennium budget...down through professional fees..approximately 2 million...rather than have another full time employee...one of the reasons we are able to scale back the e citation program is because...this would take out all the hand held ...again Mr. Chairman it would be...a cut of 2.8 million.  That is it in a nut shell...we do have people here who can talk about any of these issues.

   5:58 ~ 1/20/2009 4:15:20 PM ~ Chief Justice...that is the same contractor and they are available now and we can't promise that they would be available in a year from now nor that the price won't go up.  That cust back the e citation program to just the highway patrol..that leaves the development of the software in.

   7:02 ~ 1/20/2009 4:16:24 PM ~ Hammons:  I need a better understanding of when you just limit it to the highway patrol, so where does this actually get us if only the highway department is using the system.

   7:39 ~ 1/20/2009 4:17:00 PM ~ Chief Justice:  Steven...

   7:54 ~ 1/20/2009 4:17:15 PM ~ Steven Greer:  What we have done is scaled back the implementation...would establish the framework...

   8:22 ~ 1/20/2009 4:17:43 PM ~ Hammons:  Follow up...I need to have a better undersstanding about just using a protion and not a full roll out...

   8:50 ~ 1/20/2009 4:18:12 PM ~ Steven:  The way we have approached this it allows us to get one whole system up and running...we do have representatives that will be providing input..Laramie County...police are looking at e citation process for themselves.

   9:51 ~ 1/20/2009 4:19:12 PM ~ Hammons:  That raises the question...is there anything the state needs to do..

  10:10 ~ 1/20/2009 4:19:31 PM ~ Steven:  The language is predefined and others would be able to use the system and implement for themselves..

  10:38 ~ 1/20/2009 4:19:59 PM ~ Chief Justice:  Two other reasons to do it...we don't have to fund at all three levels..sheriffs and police can implement...they would have to cooperate to get it done the same way.

  11:23 ~ 1/20/2009 4:20:45 PM ~ Steward:  I have in my notes that you had some carry over that you could use to start your program..

  11:42 ~ 1/20/2009 4:21:03 PM ~ Joann: The automation fund usually funds all of our system..that balance is about...general fund request with no carry over.

  12:20 ~ 1/20/2009 4:21:41 PM ~ Steward:  Have you considered a phased in approach that could hopefully implement this program with a more seamless implementation.  We won't lose any data that is out there and ensure all the good work that has been done out at the county level.

  13:20 ~ 1/20/2009 4:22:42 PM ~ Justice:  Whiich system are you speaking of?

  13:34 ~ 1/20/2009 4:22:55 PM ~ Steward: ..

  13:41 ~ 1/20/2009 4:23:02 PM ~ Justice:  We sort of have them all on board going forward with this program.  We are afraid of picking a pilot program..I guess the simplest...the cost is the same..the goal is uniformly implemented.

  14:37 ~ 1/20/2009 4:23:58 PM ~ Steven:  There is always a con...whether or not this needs...some have just invested alot of money and this prevents them from implementing another system..There is a 400K to perserve the systems...

  15:38 ~ 1/20/2009 4:25:00 PM ~ Harshman:  I have some notes on the e citation program...how fast does it fill up?

  15:57 ~ 1/20/2009 4:25:18 PM ~ Joann:  Approximately 2.5 million coming in during the biennium.

  16:12 ~ 1/20/2009 4:25:33 PM ~ Justice:  Do you want her to explain the second option.

  16:33 ~ 1/20/2009 4:25:54 PM ~ Nicholas:  Explain why that is so high.

  16:42 ~ 1/20/2009 4:26:04 PM ~ Steven:  The recurring cost is an estimate..we are using a similar vendor.

  17:05 ~ 1/20/2009 4:26:26 PM ~ Nicholas:  So that is vendor support?

  17:15 ~ 1/20/2009 4:26:36 PM ~ Steven:   We are paying them for protietary information.

  17:54 ~ 1/20/2009 4:27:15 PM ~ Nicholas:  Are we buying the system or renting?

  18:05 ~ 1/20/2009 4:27:27 PM ~ Steven:

  18:10 ~ 1/20/2009 4:27:31 PM ~ Nicholas:  is it an option to buy or not?

  18:22 ~ 1/20/2009 4:27:43 PM ~ Nicholas:  When you say it is an option...what would it look like if we designed our own system..

  18:44 ~ 1/20/2009 4:28:05 PM ~ Steven:  That could be an option in the future.  The first three years..

  19:01 ~ 1/20/2009 4:28:22 PM ~ Nicholas:  I want to ananlyze it before we buy this...is this something you can consider?

  19:24 ~ 1/20/2009 4:28:45 PM ~ Steven:  We have considered it in this case we want the vendor..

  19:43 ~ 1/20/2009 4:29:05 PM ~ Nicholas:  Bo b when hyou see these 18% costs what do you think?

  19:59 ~ 1/20/2009 4:29:20 PM ~ CFO:  The cost is reasonable.

  20:13 ~ 1/20/2009 4:29:34 PM ~ Nicholas:  With respect to the proposal..

  20:26 ~ 1/20/2009 4:29:48 PM ~ CFO:  This is the first time I see this data..We really have to do..there is some discussion with e citations...we have not had an opportunity to review..

  21:12 ~ 1/20/2009 4:30:33 PM ~ Nicholas:  If we..I know that you broke these out..if we wanted to fund one project completely..which would you pick.

  21:44 ~ 1/20/2009 4:31:05 PM ~ Joann:  That would include the ...we would not do anything with the e citation project..

  22:08 ~ 1/20/2009 4:31:29 PM ~ Nicholas:  You would take the case management system?

  22:17 ~ 1/20/2009 4:31:39 PM ~ Joann:  That would be correct.

  22:25 ~ 1/20/2009 4:31:46 PM ~ Nicholas:  Could you explain the difference between option on and two.

  22:43 ~ 1/20/2009 4:32:04 PM ~ Joann:  Option one is just adding the e citation software...550K..training and implementation...200K  for...there is a little bit of difference between..we would be doing away with all the hardware that would be going into the patrolman's cars.

  23:43 ~ 1/20/2009 4:33:04 PM ~ Harshman:  2.9 million for the hardware...then the numbers do not match.

  24:05 ~ 1/20/2009 4:33:26 PM ~ Joann:  Again that is because of the 2 full time versus the contract employee.  That would allow us to get on board with the highway patrol..

  24:48 ~ 1/20/2009 4:34:09 PM ~ Nicholas:  The difference between one and two then is just that you dropped off the e citation program?

  25:11 ~ 1/20/2009 4:34:32 PM ~ Joann:  It is a portion of the program but we still want to move forward with the software with the e citation program...

  25:36 ~ 1/20/2009 4:34:58 PM ~ Joann:  Option 1 is the e citation program fully implemented.

  25:54 ~ 1/20/2009 4:35:15 PM ~ Nicholas:  On option two..

  26:03 ~ 1/20/2009 4:35:25 PM ~ Joann;  On the second option the e citation is out completely.

  26:23 ~ 1/20/2009 4:35:44 PM ~ Harshman:  So on your original request was ...still not tracking..

  26:44 ~ 1/20/2009 4:36:05 PM ~ Joann:  That is because we are changing the personell and the difference between the two positions that we originally requested.

  27:14 ~ 1/20/2009 4:36:36 PM ~ Nicholas:  Any more questions.

  27:26 ~ 1/20/2009 4:36:47 PM ~ Joann:  Simply asking for the management system..

  27:46 ~ 1/20/2009 4:37:07 PM ~ Nicholas:  Could you give us a spreadsheet on the automation account to show us the balances and what the expected revenues will come in.

  28:13 ~ 1/20/2009 4:37:35 PM ~ Hammons:  I haven't been tracking this...what is happening to software providers in this economy...should we delay the e citation program because of projected costs...

  28:51 ~ 1/20/2009 4:38:12 PM ~ Chief Justice:  Not sure I can answer...prices kept going up and up and up.. They paid a lot more for the system than we did...things are changing so much...

  29:33 ~ 1/20/2009 4:38:55 PM ~ Steven:  One of the anticipated benefits...is the anticipated hiring of four employees who would live and work in Cheyenne.

  30:03 ~ 1/20/2009 4:39:24 PM ~ Nicholas:  Will we see any savings to  the district staff..or would it be the same.

  30:26 ~ 1/20/2009 4:39:48 PM ~ Joann:  We would hope to be able to maintain the same staff...increased responsibilities...some input from the sheriffs..hopeful that they would be able to automatically diownload the inforemation.

  31:20 ~ 1/20/2009 4:40:42 PM ~ Nicholas:  Thank you for the information and we will be doing mark up on Monday...

  31:59 ~ 1/20/2009 4:41:20 PM ~ Nicholas:  Now we will hear from the DOT.

  32:10 ~ 1/20/2009 4:41:32 PM ~ Nicholas:  With your budget...the only thing is 50 million for roads.  We are looking at overall...asphalt aquisition...push our dollars further..what can you do...can you buy it in advance..I understand you have a contractor looking at this...

  33:17 ~ 1/20/2009 4:42:38 PM ~ Cox:  Short answer is yes and I would likel McOmie to comment on this to date.

  33:40 ~ 1/20/2009 4:43:01 PM ~ McOmie:  Chief engineer of WYDOT...we have been having inflation issues.  we have been looking at how we have been doing business for the last five years..we have implemented a program...we hope in the future that we can look at the dollars if we do a 4R program what does it do to affect the overall project..we looked at all our projects and looked at a conservative...National Park service and other states have asked for our design books...we tried to mix that up...our bidding process...better idea of manpower and what they need to purchase...when we look at what we need we know what kind of stock to keep available..beside the design manuals we...things of that nature. specifically at the last meeting you asked about the difference between concrete and asphalt...a lot of these contractors specialize in one or the other..we did put on a consultant....asphalt...190-210 dollar range and now it is at 800-900 dollar range...asphalt is still up and there are a lot of reasons for that..again we don't know where that will head...while still mixing conrete projects...something they call a thin bonded project...overlay projects..rather than 2 inchs we take off 1 inch and add 2 inch...they we could look at adding 6 inches of concrete instead of the asphalt.  You need to be aware that over the years you see ebb and flow..because of supply issues there was a lot of work going on...concrete is down and asphalt is up..try and keep those two industries competitive with each other and we will do what we can.

  40:32 ~ 1/20/2009 4:49:54 PM ~ Peterson:  Ripping up asphalt...can they add oil and reuse..what are the findings of those projects?

  41:02 ~ 1/20/2009 4:50:23 PM ~ McOmie:  We are looking at the viability of that.  there are some environmental issues...We are incoroprating some of it into the road crushed base...also it is recycled back in...very effective.

  42:10 ~ 1/20/2009 4:51:31 PM ~ Nicholas:  If you are going to use cement is easier..those are some of the things I am wondering if you consider doing that..You want cement between..you are buying at the most expensive time of the year.  Why not buy and store in the more competitve times.  Depending on commodities..

  43:27 ~ 1/20/2009 4:52:49 PM ~ McOmie:  We have looked at market share and ...the highway construction...the majority goes to the housing industry..last year we let alot of projects in rock Springs, Rawlins, Gillette and that was  an unusal year...that is something we could look at...typically our bidding process is that the contractor gets the material...if we store it then we have to find a way to get it to them...risk needs to be on the contractor..

  45:09 ~ 1/20/2009 4:54:30 PM ~ Nicholas:  You get a storage tank and you go buy your summer supply...

  45:24 ~ 1/20/2009 4:54:45 PM ~ McOmie:  That is surely an option...

  45:39 ~ 1/20/2009 4:55:00 PM ~ Nicholas:  Or you buy in the winter you could have them store it...your sitting on the money..you should buy now and then you don't bid out the cement you just use your own.

  46:18 ~ 1/20/2009 4:55:40 PM ~ McOmie:  That is what we have been doing with the asphalt side...typically the concrete side has not been an issue. Past years they have gone out and...oversupply of concrete.

  47:00 ~ 1/20/2009 4:56:21 PM ~ Nicholas:  In terms of costs will you be able to get more roads for your dollars...

  47:21 ~ 1/20/2009 4:56:42 PM ~ McOmie:  Historically we see a 3% increase....starting last year we saw a 24% increase...this year we budgeted a 16% increase...we are seeing good bids this year so we will lower that inflationary rate if it continues.. If we have a 16% increase and don't use the dollars we just let out more projects...we let all but about 30 million dollars...in April there will be no state monies but we will still have some on the federal side.  We have done that for the last three years.  I would hope and expect that...if the recession stays the same we should be getting good bids coming in..that is refelected in the prices we see.

  49:42 ~ 1/20/2009 4:59:03 PM ~ Berger:  Could you reveiw what the handout if you got 50 million..is that rate at 16%  that is projected out to 2016...it has all the  projects.

  50:28 ~ 1/20/2009 4:59:50 PM ~ McOmie:  These are all the projects that we had to push back..when we went to the governor and asked for funding....if we got 50 million we will take some of these projects off the list...this is what the projects would cost to go this year..

  51:20 ~ 1/20/2009 5:00:42 PM ~ berger:  How would you go about prioritize this list if you don't get all you have asked for?

  51:42 ~ 1/20/2009 5:01:03 PM ~ McOmie:  We will look at our system  and all the projects are listed by priority.  We might look at what is going on in the asphalt versus concrete market and determine some ...

  52:28 ~ 1/20/2009 5:01:49 PM ~ Berger:  State funds and your federal funds....what might the new administration do with the new stimulus package...

  53:09 ~ 1/20/2009 5:02:30 PM ~ McOmie:  The number looks like about 190 million to Wyoming.  It figures out to be about 80 million for Wyoming...There is some discussion if the monies...800+ pages of requests......That is not going to be an economic stimulus...what they are saying is that there would be an immediate impact..that is when they will be doing their crushing for these projects...what we are seeing is a number of sub contractors...it flabbergasts me the number of people bidding on these projects...there is a downturn in the construction market...24 people come in and  give bids on one project...I didn't even know that they even had that many contractors...

  55:54 ~ 1/20/2009 5:05:16 PM ~ Nicholas:  I think once the money is out you will see some of those contractors going back to Colorado.

  56:19 ~ 1/20/2009 5:05:40 PM ~ McOmie:  We didn't know where this was going to end up...under contract in 100 days...by March you would have to be advertising...Wyoming is in a unique

  57:03 ~ 1/20/2009 5:06:24 PM ~ Meier:  What we are trying to do is to keep Wyoming contractors in business.  Are we getting out state contractors that are getting the jobs.

  57:35 ~ 1/20/2009 5:06:56 PM ~ McOmie:  We are seeing an influx of contractors coming over...we don't have a single contractor that does ....those were out of state contractors...Reiman does some street work but doesn't have ...a little over 50% goes to our state contractors...our in state guys could use more work and we are going to make that available to them.

  58:53 ~ 1/20/2009 5:08:15 PM ~ Massie:  Switch gears and talk a little about airports...do you have a similar list of what projects will go...

  59:24 ~ 1/20/2009 5:08:45 PM ~ McOmie:  Yes they do...

  59:37 ~ 1/20/2009 5:08:58 PM ~ Massie:  Do we have that list?

  59:42 ~ 1/20/2009 5:09:04 PM ~ McOmie:  We can certainly make that available for you.

  59:56 ~ 1/20/2009 5:09:17 PM ~ Massie: What are the state funds used for at airports?

1:00:09 ~ 1/20/2009 5:09:30 PM ~ McOmie:  An airport is just a short highway...they have amintenance issues..they do the same things we do...they have different contracting rules...similar in nature.  a little less flexible....in general you could just pick out a mile of highway and it would be about the same for airports.

1:01:18 ~ 1/20/2009 5:10:39 PM ~ Massie:  I understand that airports are not created equal.

1:01:35 ~ 1/20/2009 5:10:56 PM ~ Cox:  In general you stated it correctly that those airports that have the most traffic are getting the most attention.

1:02:02 ~ 1/20/2009 5:11:23 PM ~ Peterseon:  I asked the department to provide us some charts with...requested me to look at the funds and the obligations in trying to maintain a bus service in the bBasin.  What has happened to those funds...joint powers bnoard has asked me to look at why we are short 240K...no interstate through that area..that is what we are talking about that.  A quick discussion of what these charts are about.

1:03:45 ~ 1/20/2009 5:13:06 PM ~ Cox:  I will have .....discuss this...

1:03:56 ~ 1/20/2009 5:13:18 PM ~ Mr.  Kind of a summary of the funding of the program and the listing of projects we have through 2009.  Other projects not approved for funding..through those projects the intercity bus service...we fund that program directly through the Northern route and what we found out was ...Shoshoni to the Colrado border is called our Southern route.  what we found is that we had a pilot project that has operated since July and on that chart we started in July ...this was interrupted when Powderriver transportation interrupted service...you see there was an increase in ridership through August and is slowly coming back in December...to continue this service yearl...we can not do it with the federal funds that we are given.  We probably need to get...that is kind of where we are right now.

1:07:30 ~ 1/20/2009 5:16:51 PM ~ Peterson:  The total funds is what amount?

1:07:41 ~ 1/20/2009 5:17:02 PM ~ Mr.  650K and that includes other services around the state.  Riverton to Lander, Newcastle to Rapid City, etc.  routes.

1:08:24 ~ 1/20/2009 5:17:45 PM ~ Peterson:  Has the state ever matched those dollars or a portion?

1:08:37 ~ 1/20/2009 5:17:59 PM ~ Mr. No we have always used federal funds for that program.

1:08:52 ~ 1/20/2009 5:18:14 PM ~ Nicholas:  Not sure if I am understaniding...

1:09:07 ~ 1/20/2009 5:18:28 PM ~ Mr.   That is the full amount that we have for all services each year.

1:09:26 ~ 1/20/2009 5:18:47 PM ~ Nicholas:  Everything adds up to the column...under total.

1:09:40 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:02 PM ~ Mr.  That is with carry over...

1:09:48 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:09 PM ~ Nicholas:  what is the 645K

1:09:55 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:17 PM ~ Mr.  To date we have obligated to...leaving us 645K

1:10:13 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:34 PM ~ Nicholas:  So the 645 is the sum...

1:10:21 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:43 PM ~ Mr.  That is what is left in the fund.

1:10:35 ~ 1/20/2009 5:19:56 PM ~ Mr.  that is about 550K ...

1:10:47 ~ 1/20/2009 5:20:08 PM ~ Nicholas:  In any event...

1:10:59 ~ 1/20/2009 5:20:20 PM ~ Mr. I believe it runs to Alpin.

1:11:07 ~ 1/20/2009 5:20:29 PM ~ Nicholas:  When you look at these dollars do you look at the local opportunities.

1:11:37 ~ 1/20/2009 5:20:58 PM ~ Mr.  Yes but they also carry the most passengers.

1:11:50 ~ 1/20/2009 5:21:11 PM ~ Nicholas; Do you have to do it by ridership or do you just do that.

1:12:04 ~ 1/20/2009 5:21:26 PM ~ Nichlas: The problem I have..we would expect you to look at local resources.  They should be paying a bigger share.

1:12:30 ~ 1/20/2009 5:21:51 PM ~ Cox:  Phylisophically we agree with you.  We have grown quite accustomed to telling Teton county  No.

1:13:03 ~ 1/20/2009 5:22:25 PM ~ Nicholas: The chart does not indicate that.,

1:13:13 ~ 1/20/2009 5:22:34 PM ~ Peterson: Do you have any idea what programs will be cut?

1:13:25 ~ 1/20/2009 5:22:47 PM ~ Mr.  The strategy we have used is to advise the people in the Basin that we can not sustain the services,,,we extended the prilot program four months to see if there was nay possibility of state funds...looking for a local match.fThey have indicated an interest in doing that.

1:14:30 ~ 1/20/2009 5:23:52 PM ~ Nicholas:  What is the match?

1:14:38 ~ 1/20/2009 5:24:00 PM ~ Mr. 80/20

1:14:49 ~ 1/20/2009 5:24:10 PM ~ Nicholas:  What is the local?

1:14:56 ~ 1/20/2009 5:24:17 PM ~ Mr.  We have not had them match it falls to the bus service...80 is the federal portion..

1:15:18 ~ 1/20/2009 5:24:39 PM ~ Peterson:  We do the same thing with our air service..does it follow the same matching process.

1:15:39 ~ 1/20/2009 5:25:00 PM ~ Mr:  Different programs have different matching processes.

1:15:54 ~ 1/20/2009 5:25:16 PM ~ Peterson:  The air sevice do you know the ridership.

1:16:08 ~ 1/20/2009 5:25:30 PM ~ Mr:  90/10 ratio...remainder of that is 90% 8% and 2%...

1:16:35 ~ 1/20/2009 5:25:56 PM ~ Nicholas:  I do want to go back to e filing..everytime you come in you ask for more patrolman and then we have to put on more employees in the court system...should be a greater concern to you..we are looking for 900K I think you should be assuming that responsibility.  I don't think there is going to be support to get the money into the courts.  I think this is an opportunity for you to get the dollars if you want to go that route.

1:18:22 ~ 1/20/2009 5:27:43 PM ~ Cox:  We certainly came prepared to disucss that part of the program.  Today is the first time we heard that the court is taking the e filing off the table.   As the program moves forward...we would simply use the handhelds that was approved in the last budget..that is why the supreme court was saying that they would not need the handhelds...the implementation...highway patrol and..I would tell you that the DOT is prepared to defray that cost.  That is to say that we are ready to ...

1:20:38 ~ 1/20/2009 5:29:59 PM ~ Nicholas:  You expect us to staff up the clerks to do your work..you can use their staff and can reside in their data center...and I assume that...in your ..are you going to get additional dollars...

1:21:34 ~ 1/20/2009 5:30:56 PM ~ Mr.  WE are going into..we don't know what the federal government...we would be guessing very strongly..we did fund..

1:22:08 ~ 1/20/2009 5:31:29 PM ~ Nicholas:  In those packages are there going to be any dollars that are going to be available..

1:22:34 ~ 1/20/2009 5:31:55 PM ~ Cox:  The Supreme Court was aimed at 836 officers up to the state level.. there are about 1400 peace officers around the state...the highway patrol and the DOT is very willing to cover the costs that we incvur we provide about 1/3 of the tickets.

1:23:36 ~ 1/20/2009 5:32:57 PM ~ Cox:  I would like to go back to the stimulus and where that might go...we are hoping that there are some dollars coming our way.  I did send letters to Barrasso and Enzi. I was able to have a face to face with Barrasso and he is on the  committee, I think he will carefully consider whether he can support...Enzi stated a letter that states that he does not look favorably on the stimulus package and not sure where that will come out.

1:25:12 ~ 1/20/2009 5:34:33 PM ~ Nicholas:  Thank you for coming.

1:25:30 ~ 1/20/2009 5:34:50 PM ~ Stop Recording