File name: JAC Budget Hearings FY 13-14_20111208_074612.dcr Folder: C:\Documents and Settings\HAppropriations\Desktop\Recordings 0 ~ 12/8/2011 8:22:05 AM ~ 5 ~ 12/8/2011 8:22:11 AM ~ Jefferies: 11 ~ 12/8/2011 8:22:16 AM ~ 12 ~ 12/8/2011 8:22:18 AM ~ Mier: Pipeline in the news is Canadian. Wonder if could relate to us how it might effect Wyoming. 49 ~ 12/8/2011 8:22:55 AM ~ Jefferies: Project in Alberta is not intended to pass though Wyoming. It has been hung up about concerns in Nebraska. If built the impact would be indirect. The North Dakota project would move through Wyoming and competes for capacity. If Keystone built, North Dakota project would move in part so it would make room in Wyoming. 2:14 ~ 12/8/2011 8:24:20 AM ~ Nicholas: I am reminded of what differential is for gas? 2:32 ~ 12/8/2011 8:24:38 AM ~ Jefferies: Differential has shrunk. It is close to variable cost to moving gas out of the area. 2:56 ~ 12/8/2011 8:25:01 AM ~ Nicholas: Good news. Gas prices are down. We had grown accustomed to differential. Anything on horizon to create differential 3:37 ~ 12/8/2011 8:25:43 AM ~ Jefferies: For first time in decade have headroom to grow into it. Collective growth in Wy, CO, and Utah will help fill us up. If it comes issues of access to drill and absolute price of gas and where producers want to produce budget. 4:46 ~ 12/8/2011 8:26:51 AM ~ Jefferies: Reductions will come out of activities since we are a small shop. Whatever the means are we live with them. 5:34 ~ 12/8/2011 8:27:40 AM ~ Esquibel: Want to go back to Keystone. The opposition from Nebraska has been.. 6:10 ~ 12/8/2011 8:28:15 AM ~ Jeffereis: Is not familiar with project sponsors plan ... 6:29 ~ 12/8/2011 8:28:35 AM ~ Steward: Heard from another small agency would reduce services. See for you cut in contract services. 6:54 ~ 12/8/2011 8:28:59 AM ~ Jefferies: The largest part of services are outside counsel. Issues comes up with Federal Regulatory Committtee. Have to make decision about whether ro make comments and in what form. If budget doesn't support in person comments, would have to make arguments in another way. You have to prioritze the fight. 8:19 ~ 12/8/2011 8:30:25 AM ~ Berger: Thank you for your service. 8:29 ~ 12/8/2011 8:30:35 AM ~ Wyoming Infrastructure Authority Agency 032 8:54 ~ 12/8/2011 8:30:59 AM ~ Grain: Has Freeman, Board member with him. Mission is to diversify the state economy for the grid -- wind (demand in marketplace for renewables) and believes, ... clean coal will become a reality; otherwise there will be infrastructure. Lead time is 10 years for permitting process and.. Cost intensive to build new transmission. Seen improvement in movement in Gateway West, Sierra Madre Choke Cherry and rapid response team selected projects to fast track through coordination of permitting and siting. Wyoming had Gateway and Transmission Express. BLM announced White Mountain Project, Shell's Formosa Project, Chokecherry and Sierra Madre Projects selected. Budget reduction scenaiors to Committee., request for authorized request for FTE (2004 forward). Provided summary of payments. 13:23 ~ 12/8/2011 8:35:29 AM ~ Berger: Professional fees are legal and consultant. 13:36 ~ 12/8/2011 8:35:41 AM ~ Direcotr: It is legal fees 14:24 ~ 12/8/2011 8:36:30 AM ~ Berger: 14:30 ~ 12/8/2011 8:36:35 AM ~ Director: Beleive Gateway South and West will be developed. Seen progress in Anschutz project. Until have transmission built not happen. 15:17 ~ 12/8/2011 8:37:22 AM ~ Berger: Where is grid discussion in getting to West coast 15:40 ~ 12/8/2011 8:37:45 AM ~ Director: Line goes through the NW part of Utah and Nevada. Cooperation with Coloraod and Counties in Wyoming, continuing to do work in Utah, there is challenge in Nevada. 16:29 ~ 12/8/2011 8:38:34 AM ~ Berger: You had request for 2 additional FTEs. 16:46 ~ 12/8/2011 8:38:52 AM ~ Director: We do not have exceptions and are a small shopt. 17:11 ~ 12/8/2011 8:39:17 AM ~ Berger: Page 18 technology adjusted in the standard request. 17:28 ~ 12/8/2011 8:39:33 AM ~ Drain: Yes 17:39 ~ 12/8/2011 8:39:44 AM ~ Nicholas: Take us through 900 series 17:48 ~ 12/8/2011 8:39:53 AM ~ Drain: Alliance for sustained energy. handles the billing for National Renewable Energy Laboratory to undertake study that premised energy transmission increase... They applied and received for a grant from DOE. NREL expended less money so received $10K refund. 19:14 ~ 12/8/2011 8:41:19 AM ~ Nicholas: 19:17 ~ 12/8/2011 8:41:23 AM ~ Drain: $439 cost is a board cost for expenses.. Black Hills invoices them 19:47 ~ 12/8/2011 8:41:53 AM ~ Drain: Castion? and Assoc. represented by Dennis iin DC relative to new legislation. Drain: It has been picked up by Gov Mead 20:47 ~ 12/8/2011 8:42:53 AM ~ Drain: study for model for Revenue Comm to look at Wyo competiveness to get renewable energy to the market place 21:21 ~ 12/8/2011 8:43:27 AM ~ Drain: Auditor services in Wyoming. 21:47 ~ 12/8/2011 8:43:52 AM ~ Drain: Mr. Hureless relationship brief 22:02 ~ 12/8/2011 8:44:07 AM ~ Drain: Masterson and Former Governor provides bulk to us 22:21 ~ 12/8/2011 8:44:26 AM ~ Drain: Kelsey is an accountant to handle accounting needs. 22:38 ~ 12/8/2011 8:44:44 AM ~ Drain: 22:51 ~ 12/8/2011 8:44:56 AM ~ Nicholas: Have you made inquiry as to A&I provide service at a lower cost? 23:15 ~ 12/8/2011 8:45:21 AM ~ Drain: During his tenure he has not done 23:42 ~ 12/8/2011 8:45:47 AM ~ Nicholas: Group who serves smaller agencies and boards. 23:58 ~ 12/8/2011 8:46:03 AM ~ Drain: Taylor and HIll is bill for consulting services. He formerly did consulting for them. 24:28 ~ 12/8/2011 8:46:34 AM ~ Nicholas: ICF Inc.? 24:41 ~ 12/8/2011 8:46:47 AM ~ Drain: Balance left on study that authority, a phase 2 study funded by DOE. Balance not paid. 25:15 ~ 12/8/2011 8:47:20 AM ~ Drian: Established relationship with UW relative to diversity of wind studies and sources relative to other stattes and ranges. 26:14 ~ 12/8/2011 8:48:20 AM ~ Drain: Small fee for bonding. 26:38 ~ 12/8/2011 8:48:43 AM ~ Nicholas: Appredicates the 900 series 26:50 ~ 12/8/2011 8:48:55 AM ~ Berger: Tell us about yourself 26:57 ~ 12/8/2011 8:49:03 AM ~ Drain: Joined in 2007 as developmental director. Left for a brief time. He was engaged his services as consultant. In May of 2010 the Board asked him to come on as Executive director. The state is blessed with resources. 28:11 ~ 12/8/2011 8:50:16 AM ~ Harshman: Group have been pushing nuclear energy -- is it in discussion anywhere? 28:37 ~ 12/8/2011 8:50:43 AM ~ Drain: It has been on their radar. Committeee formed this summer. It is part of pitch to California. If develop all of theire resources in state. With growth in economy expect growth in load. Building transmission lines facilitiated clean coal, nuclear energy, ... They had presentation at fall meeting. 30:17 ~ 12/8/2011 8:52:23 AM ~ Drain: I spoke with LS Power just yesterday. As soon as as the areement is signed, we can divulge that name. 32:03 ~ 12/8/2011 8:54:09 AM ~ Harshman. Is there any shared R/W's identified. 32:20 ~ 12/8/2011 8:54:26 AM ~ Drain: We are blessed with lots of natural resources. Luckily there is no public lands identified with ths project. 33:25 ~ 12/8/2011 8:55:31 AM ~ Harshman Are there identified R/W's 33:53 ~ 12/8/2011 8:55:59 AM ~ Drain: Yes, we had a firm look at conceptual cooridors 34:15 ~ 12/8/2011 8:56:20 AM ~ Steward: Gov. from California They single out Trans West Looking at a lot of other states besides Wyoming 35:07 ~ 12/8/2011 8:57:13 AM ~ Drain: California says they are going to develope all the renewable resources in their state. We don't give up easily. The anshutz orgainization continues to be very agressive. I would think if I were in California looking outward, they would want Mr. Anshutz as a partner 37:28 ~ 12/8/2011 8:59:34 AM ~ Esquabel: This piece of land east of Lowes Dist. Warehouse, is that part of the project 38:06 ~ 12/8/2011 9:00:12 AM ~ Drain: No 38:31 ~ 12/8/2011 9:00:36 AM ~ Freeman That may be the proposal that Black Hills has proposed Southwest corner of I-80 and Campstool road Mr. Drain has covered everything adequately. The world we work in is not for the fain of heart. We want to stick with it. We have had some obsticals but I thinkd they are soluable. There is study showing that moving 12,000 mega watts out of California would be a savings. The biggest savings in those 12,000 mega watts is they were moved to Wyoming. 42:50 ~ 12/8/2011 9:04:55 AM ~ Berger Any final comments, Thank you for your presentation Next we have Geological Survey 44:20 ~ 12/8/2011 9:06:25 AM ~ Ulrich: I took over as the acting in Augst of last year. We have an excellent staff. We have a web based...... We took that opportunity to look at web publication. This resulted in about a 20% redecution. The sales from our agency I would like to chat about. We are looking at a county based system now. We have swung around to publish maps in a very short time. In the past we have shared on a 50/50 and I would like to be able to get back to that arrangement 48:11 ~ 12/8/2011 9:10:17 AM ~ Berger Any questons 48:21 ~ 12/8/2011 9:10:27 AM ~ Meier We have had a lot of sizemagraph activity. Is there any way to get a view of the top 1,500' of the sub surface. One , the data may be in a complicated software. Could you comment on that 50:16 ~ 12/8/2011 9:12:22 AM ~ Ulrich: We had staff working on a map that shows that information. Coming to the sizemagraphic data, I wish we had access to that data, but we don't. 51:50 ~ 12/8/2011 9:13:56 AM ~ Meier If it is pripority data, I would think the State of Wyoming could have some claim to that information? Could we create some sort of legislation? 53:25 ~ 12/8/2011 9:15:31 AM ~ Ulrich We have had excellent cooperation with industry in the past. 54:02 ~ 12/8/2011 9:16:07 AM ~ Berger More current update with CO2 54:17 ~ 12/8/2011 9:16:22 AM ~ Ulrich Transferred to CMI @ UW While secquestration works ..... there is still 2/3 of the oil in the ground. We look at putting into the ground and then getting pipelines into the Big Horn Basin. 56:26 ~ 12/8/2011 9:18:32 AM ~ Nicholas Is there a discussion of moving that out of Laramie. 56:53 ~ 12/8/2011 9:18:59 AM ~ Ulrich: Yes there has been some talk. 57:10 ~ 12/8/2011 9:19:15 AM ~ Nicholas Can't get to the building 57:26 ~ 12/8/2011 9:19:32 AM ~ Ulrich Can't get to the building, can't get the rocks in. There is quite a lenghtly process 58:12 ~ 12/8/2011 9:20:17 AM ~ Esquabel: Niabrara Play What is the process that they go through. 59:01 ~ 12/8/2011 9:21:07 AM ~ Ulrich They need to be polite, and ask. 59:26 ~ 12/8/2011 9:21:32 AM ~ Meier: Ground penitrating radar. 59:59 ~ 12/8/2011 9:22:05 AM ~ Ulrich We have some of that data. Another technology .... Heavy geothermal I am very excited about that data There is a very large souce outside of Yellowstone. The Chinese 1:01:32 ~ 12/8/2011 9:23:38 AM ~ Berger Page 14 Data processing oked for computers, denied maintaince 1:02:13 ~ 12/8/2011 9:24:19 AM ~ Jones: Lots of money has 1:02:35 ~ 12/8/2011 9:24:41 AM ~ Berger Thank you very much 1:03:14 ~ 12/8/2011 9:25:20 AM ~ Doll Hyjdraulic frachturing rules require disclosure as part of the permitting process. It has been successful with that and challenged to hold trade secrets confidential. We also rues on microbial enhancement for cold bed methane. We have worked with BLM in permitting with federal minerals in the State espeicaly with hydrauilc fracturing rules,. It includes Federal to also disclose. Resolution with blowout diverter stack in drilling to deal with Powder River Basin drilling. Staff have developed for type curves for Niabora wells. Have not discovered a Jake well. Wyoming barrels have been 700 barrels a day and decreases of over ensuing months. So rate is factor in development. Premiere rigs are associated with drilling. Bright spot is southern Cambell and norht part of Converse where older fields using horiztonal drilling technology in Turne and Parkman sand zones. ... 1:09:43 ~ 12/8/2011 9:31:48 AM ~ Berger: Whyat type of lengeivtgy of technology? 1:09:58 ~ 12/8/2011 9:32:03 AM ~ Doll 1:10:28 ~ 12/8/2011 9:32:33 AM ~ Harshman Are those all mostly horizontal plays 1:10:52 ~ 12/8/2011 9:32:58 AM ~ Doll Yes , the producing wells are all horizontal Yes, I would think it would be more than 100 barrels per day. We are starting to see a decline of coal bed methane in the Powder River Basin. Not many drilled, quite a few plugged and abandoned. We do see then in the Powder, more orphan wells. We are pulling bonds and going out and plug those wells That process has been quite 110 wells plugged only 13 wells this year $280,000 plugging wells in the Big Piney area. Our plug and abandonment inludes rehad of the ground. We have asked for an additional 1 mill. We think there is a potentiional for 800 to 1,000. 1:16:17 ~ 12/8/2011 9:38:22 AM ~ Nicholas is there no bonding in place 1:16:37 ~ 12/8/2011 9:38:42 AM ~ Doll Yes, 1:16:57 ~ 12/8/2011 9:39:03 AM ~ Nicholas If you have large companines drilling lots of wells and then sells them off to smaller companies 1:17:39 ~ 12/8/2011 9:39:45 AM ~ Doll: 1:17:54 ~ 12/8/2011 9:40:00 AM ~ Nicholas If I have a $3 bond well, 1:18:27 ~ 12/8/2011 9:40:32 AM ~ Doll No that is not the case We review to see if they have adequate bonding. We hold the seller responcibility until the new buyer gets bonding. The compainies that small companies that bought small wells from other small companies. These are when the boom prices of 2008 and some of these wells 1:20:47 ~ 12/8/2011 9:42:53 AM ~ Nicholas They have an annual review DEQ 1:21:04 ~ 12/8/2011 9:43:10 AM ~ Doll We do review and perform a risk analysis In the short term I think our liablity could be 4 mill we are okay in the long term. 1:22:15 ~ 12/8/2011 9:44:21 AM ~ Nicholas We ask you to give us money and tax the procucers 1:22:43 ~ 12/8/2011 9:44:49 AM ~ Doll They feel strongly that we don't need to increase..... We could ask for up to 2 mill. 1:23:49 ~ 12/8/2011 9:45:55 AM ~ Nicholas Does the Minerals Committees know about this discussion 1:24:24 ~ 12/8/2011 9:46:30 AM ~ Doll Ys 1:24:31 ~ 12/8/2011 9:46:36 AM ~ Nicholas You ask for a mill. and then .... They need to know that you have 4 mill of costs that will be 1:25:37 ~ 12/8/2011 9:47:43 AM ~ Doll I think we can do it under the current regulations. We are 1:26:04 ~ 12/8/2011 9:48:09 AM ~ Nicholas These are good times, not the best but good Are you going to reduce a 4mill reserve. Will you still have that reserve at the end of all this plugging. 1:27:27 ~ 12/8/2011 9:49:32 AM ~ Doll Yes, we will have the 4 mill reserve. 1:28:03 ~ 12/8/2011 9:50:09 AM ~ Nicholas: Tom I apoligize I am just not comfortable with the booking keeping of how this works. Would you provide a white paper to explain all of it. and also give it to the Minerals Committee. 1:29:32 ~ 12/8/2011 9:51:37 AM ~ Berger On the orphans wells, I assume those are contractors theat yhou use. 1:30:08 ~ 12/8/2011 9:52:14 AM ~ Doll Use, these people are in great demand 1:30:44 ~ 12/8/2011 9:52:49 AM ~ Von Flatern Will be getting that money back at some day. 1:31:31 ~ 12/8/2011 9:53:37 AM ~ Doll In 2010 we plugged 110 Wolverine wells There were 83 fee lease wells $7.55 per linear foot 1:32:38 ~ 12/8/2011 9:54:44 AM ~ Nicholas When you say there is non bonded wells on State Lands. They have there own oversite group How did that come about 1:33:33 ~ 12/8/2011 9:55:38 AM ~ Doll I don't see it as a big hole. They do have a bond Worlverine was already in bankrupcy It's a problem when operatiors buy these wells for a dime on the dollar. 1:35:17 ~ 12/8/2011 9:57:22 AM ~ Nicholas THe State Lands should be provideding there own protection. If I have a ranch, I want to know that the state lands within my ranch are adequatly bonded 1:36:47 ~ 12/8/2011 9:58:52 AM ~ Doll If there is a fee, we This is for idle wells onlyl. Where the trap is 1:37:32 ~ 12/8/2011 9:59:37 AM ~ Nicholas Some are idle is because they don't want to plug them or they are just waiting for the price to come up. Primarily in the Poweder River Basin but really all over the state 1:38:46 ~ 12/8/2011 10:00:51 AM ~ Nicholas You will see those bills and you will be providing 1:39:14 ~ 12/8/2011 10:01:20 AM ~ Meier Do we have an analysis of the coalbed mehthane play. 1:39:58 ~ 12/8/2011 10:02:03 AM ~ Doll Yes we do. We detected that tipping point this summere. 1:40:53 ~ 12/8/2011 10:02:58 AM ~ Berger Do those go back to the original owner 1:41:14 ~ 12/8/2011 10:03:19 AM ~ Doll We have to advertise to see if lean holder has any claims 1:42:03 ~ 12/8/2011 10:04:09 AM ~ Esqualbel Monitoring wells, not as deep 1:42:33 ~ 12/8/2011 10:04:38 AM ~ Doll Could be in the same quadrant It's just a tool that they use. It's not permitted to be a producer. 1:43:29 ~ 12/8/2011 10:05:35 AM ~ Esquabel Is there any type of payment 1:43:57 ~ 12/8/2011 10:06:03 AM ~ Doll There is a split estate law. 1:44:19 ~ 12/8/2011 10:06:24 AM ~ Doll: permitting process and bonding process for the associate pits used during htelife of the wells ...oil and gass commission, require them to post abond becuase of some of what has happended in cheyenne area in the last few years, have been more aggressive..still not in compliance with our rule so incrased the bonding and the amount of information required 1:46:04 ~ 12/8/2011 10:08:10 AM ~ Steward: Gov hihglighted a need for a broader investigation into pavilions water..agencies partnership with EPA, how do you see that impacting your budget? 1:46:36 ~ 12/8/2011 10:08:42 AM ~ Doll: Today epa will announce that the monitoring wells sampled at end of april 2010..water qualifity problems may be associated with hydraulic fracturing. WE do not agree with that ..only 2 pts of ref, with Pavillion water, recommended two working groups, one is looking at well integrity, the other at pits and sites to be identified by the landowners, that might be potential sites of pollution. We are a year into those two working groups, have identified 38 wells that need additional work for well integrity..sufficient casing, path of fluid flow to ....up to surface well...asked wells to be tested. Out of 34, 2 need additional work, operator may have to squeeze cement or abandon and plug wells On the pit side, ...think we can eliminate all but one from concern. 3 pits identified in 2006 study that stored waste from oil tanks and other accumulated fluids, those 3 pits are in voluntary remedial program...additional pit will be added... Going forward with two working groups, aggessive study...lots of questions without answers from epa yet, not enough info from 2 points sampled twice that can give us a feel for if the water chemistrys are coming from the resevoir or from the completion of the monitoring wells...will continue to chase that down Have not added budget dollars, part of our job and duties being handled by us..adding that to our burden. It is important to Wyoming becajuse if EPA makes the statement improperly, people will think it is due to hydraulic ...in wyo every well except in powder river basin must be hydraulic fractured to be drilled successfully...very important to us. 1:52:28 ~ 12/8/2011 10:14:33 AM ~ Esquibel: Conference on hydraulic...Level 1 water can drink, level 6 can not use water, landowner said water was level 1 one day then level 6 the next . how does that happen 1:53:18 ~ 12/8/2011 10:15:24 AM ~ Doll: no comment, trying to get to facts and data . Review of the data does not back it up 1:53:43 ~ 12/8/2011 10:15:49 AM ~ Esquibel: want to be carful with Niobrara as we have a large acquifier... 1:54:02 ~ 12/8/2011 10:16:08 AM ~ Doll: Ogala is one of the water tables, we protect below that wiht our casing..rules require operator to identify all permited water wells within one mile, we are being protective with thos eacquifiers with all the drilling in the state... 1:54:52 ~ 12/8/2011 10:16:57 AM ~ Nicholas: If you have aresevoir, by definition has some barrier on top, drill straight down, fracking horizontally, then fracking should not have permability up, if cased properly should not have... 1:55:33 ~ 12/8/2011 10:17:38 AM ~ Doll: Generally correct 1:55:40 ~ 12/8/2011 10:17:46 AM ~ Nicholas lots of diagrams, in other areas, those barriers are close, what about wyoming, thousands or hundreds of feet 1:56:14 ~ 12/8/2011 10:18:20 AM ~ Doll: thousands of feet, in southern part of state, these are shallow wells, easily cased to 200 feet, .....drill deeper, go horizontal 1:56:47 ~ 12/8/2011 10:18:53 AM ~ Nicholas: Pavilion? 1:56:57 ~ 12/8/2011 10:19:02 AM ~ Doll: Pavilion area is uniques as there is not barrier so the gas has been moving up throiugh the winde river formation for thousands of years, oil resevoir exploited within 6000 feet, one is at 1500. Water wells at 600 ..to 140 feet...there is isolation, identifying some wells where cement fell back or did not get a good job, trying to eliminate those wells as a source, do not know where they set with the monitoring wells, just got the data in Nov 1:58:27 ~ 12/8/2011 10:20:33 AM ~ BergerL Budget pg 12 first exception relating to technology, part denyed with services going to oic office 1:58:55 ~ 12/8/2011 10:21:01 AM ~ Doll: understand and accept 1:59:02 ~ 12/8/2011 10:21:08 AM ~ Berger Pg 13 truck inventory 1:59:09 ~ 12/8/2011 10:21:14 AM ~ Doll: inc in what we pay for vehicles, could not get abid, trade in after 100,000 miles, request cut back and denied to 20000 on the trade in. I think we can meet there, typically no more than 11 rigs traded out in the biennium 2:00:02 ~ 12/8/2011 10:22:08 AM ~ Von Flatern: Doesn't the governor usually mention that he is taking a certain amount of money. In this one just says wahat is allowing. 2:00:31 ~ 12/8/2011 10:22:37 AM ~ Berger: correct...Pg 14 technology 2:00:41 ~ 12/8/2011 10:22:47 AM ~ Doll: can accept 2:00:50 ~ 12/8/2011 10:22:55 AM ~ Berger: have expanded data collection and services in your dept 2:01:10 ~ 12/8/2011 10:23:16 AM ~ Doll: scan 17000 documents per month, a document varies in size a lot of information is being accumulated and making sure it is available to the public 2:01:40 ~ 12/8/2011 10:23:45 AM ~ Berger: hope you have backup3 2:01:46 ~ 12/8/2011 10:23:52 AM ~ Nicholas: ocio applies to you, transfer GF to A&I. In your case if we reduce your expenditure, we are reducing your ability to spend money collected on your tax, to move the money would have to have an internal tax or you write a check to A&I. If A&I picks up some of your work..lower fees to your producers 2:02:57 ~ 12/8/2011 10:25:03 AM ~ Brett Jones: corresponding shift through cost allocation vehicle 2:03:12 ~ 12/8/2011 10:25:17 AM ~ Nicholas: Internal, where would we see it on this budget? 1. On their budget if you reduce their expenditures, another series should come up 2:03:52 ~ 12/8/2011 10:25:58 AM ~ Brett: There is a corresponding delay, wont see increase in 13-14 budget, will see it in 15-16 2:04:15 ~ 12/8/2011 10:26:21 AM ~ Nicholas: I understand the concept...if you stop collecting the money than ...will we see a big bubble in 2 years. Easy to see in this agency which receives a funding from a different source but if that money is not directed to you to be put in a fund, then ..will come back up. If you have done that with all of yoru GF, we expect a corresponding increase in A&I for costs...made an artifical two years for not collecting, then will get a big bang in two years, provide assurances 2:06:02 ~ 12/8/2011 10:28:08 AM ~ Bret: will provide info about the dynamics about how this will impact the funds, including the GF, 2:06:21 ~ 12/8/2011 10:28:27 AM ~ Nicholas: Will show us how the reduction is put in a fund to reduce the liability...if reduce 100 here and then cost 50, that must be collected and paid now. 2:06:52 ~ 12/8/2011 10:28:58 AM ~ Bret: Review of 306, understand that 2:07:08 ~ 12/8/2011 10:29:14 AM ~ Bret: We do have that information and we are prepared to present.. 2:07:24 ~ 12/8/2011 10:29:29 AM ~ Nciholas: if you are just shifting...internal service charge, take away 100 but other series is bumped up $50. I am not seeing that . 2:07:58 ~ 12/8/2011 10:30:04 AM ~ Bret: beneficial to prepare all those moving dollars so you can see it 2:08:15 ~ 12/8/2011 10:30:21 AM ~ Nicholas: GF, federal funds, and other funds..so we are not just giving them an insurance holiday. 2:08:35 ~ 12/8/2011 10:30:40 AM ~ Bret: Yes, we certainly have anticpated the need to go through..this with committee 2:08:53 ~ 12/8/2011 10:30:58 AM ~ Berger;; 2:08:59 ~ 12/8/2011 10:31:04 AM ~ Berger: back to mr. doll Engineer position was denyed and you can service all that work 2:09:20 ~ 12/8/2011 10:31:25 AM ~ Doll: WE have and will contine to do so 2:09:27 ~ 12/8/2011 10:31:32 AM ~ Berger: pg 19, technology, pg 20 2:09:36 ~ 12/8/2011 10:31:41 AM ~ Doll: correct 2:09:41 ~ 12/8/2011 10:31:47 AM ~ Berger pg 23, orphan wells, gov has approved that, taken care of budget 2:09:56 ~ 12/8/2011 10:32:01 AM ~ Nicholas: 900 series, throw out names Basic energy 2:10:10 ~ 12/8/2011 10:32:15 AM ~ DFoll: orphan wells plugging program Continental is a cementing service 2:10:30 ~ 12/8/2011 10:32:36 AM ~ Nicholas General comment about the flaring of gas? 2:10:52 ~ 12/8/2011 10:32:58 AM ~ Doll: Flaring is an issue we are discussing with state lands and investment have to get permit restricted to 200 thousand cubic feet per day, not to exceed 30 days, operator must give explanation for an extension, last data looked at we were at about 7.5 million cuvic feet per day allowed to be flared across the state..at about 1.25 mcf per day, a little over 1 million per day..state mineral.. don't hjave infrastruicture in SE wyomoing...can be requested across the state.. 2:13:11 ~ 12/8/2011 10:35:17 AM ~ Nicholas: how much revenue are we losing on that loss? Revenue we could be generating 2:13:32 ~ 12/8/2011 10:35:37 AM ~ Doll: ./..gas has no value if we can not get it to the sale point...try to go to a tax base that would impact the state..have not done that calculation, fairly small amoutn, have been able to manage pretty consistently..if we have an inc. in welling activiity, hope to have enoug density to connect it up... looking at connecting here and taking south into chicago to be sold. Our issue is minor compared to ND ...200 million cubic feet per day being flared in N D...it is a waste issue for us 2:15:09 ~ 12/8/2011 10:37:15 AM ~ Meier: 250 cuic ? 2:15:25 ~ 12/8/2011 10:37:30 AM ~ Doll: For up to 180 days... 2:15:37 ~ 12/8/2011 10:37:43 AM ~ fMeier: so much * ft 2:15:49 ~ 12/8/2011 10:37:54 AM ~ Doll: that and then look at tax, rev...get some type of basis trying to limit the flaring, ..have started that with the state lands... 2:16:26 ~ 12/8/2011 10:38:32 AM ~ Meier: w ould like to ask about seismology 2:16:35 ~ 12/8/2011 10:38:41 AM ~ Harshaman: scanning money 2:16:42 ~ 12/8/2011 10:38:48 AM ~ Doll: Those individuals are scanning the data as it comes in, every piece of paper coming in gets scanned, Steven H. is doing historic scanning, that job should work itself to oblivion..Milly is no longer with us. Mary Trembath is receptionist, had summer ..who did some scanning... 2:17:50 ~ 12/8/2011 10:39:56 AM ~ Harshamn: None of these were receptionists or any of that..we haveadded 11 2:18:08 ~ 12/8/2011 10:40:13 AM ~ Doll: Correct, increase in the number of field inspectors and clerical who process the paper, big increase due to coal bed methane actrivity..we are staffed adequately 2:18:45 ~ 12/8/2011 10:40:51 AM ~ Esquibel: Performance measure 3 pg 5, you do the pressure testing on 5 yr cycles, do the older wells stay on the 5 yr cycle as well. 2:19:18 ~ 12/8/2011 10:41:23 AM ~ Doll: we are required to do a ...testing.. 2:19:28 ~ 12/8/2011 10:41:33 AM ~ Esquibel: Life of well has no bearing on test 2:19:38 ~ 12/8/2011 10:41:44 AM ~ Doll: no every well must be tested every 5 years.. 2:19:51 ~ 12/8/2011 10:41:56 AM ~ Berger 10 min break, finish with Mr. Dooll, then Mr. Waters, then Mr. Gruver. 2:20:08 ~ 12/8/2011 10:42:14 AM ~ 2:20:40 ~ 12/8/2011 11:04:02 AM ~ bERGER: RESUME 2:21:59 ~ 12/8/2011 11:05:21 AM ~ mEIER: QUESTION IS ABOUT GETTING SEISMOLOGIC INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE AREOUND the state. 2:22:21 ~ 12/8/2011 11:05:43 AM ~ Doll: will find issues with a voluntary giving of the information, will find out a reasonable depth and work with state geologist dept to see type of data, will give you a paper on it 2:23:15 ~ 12/8/2011 11:06:37 AM ~ Meier: interference on wells with water permits..as these increase, it would be good to have deep geological data to mitigate circumstances that will be more prevelant. 2:23:54 ~ 12/8/2011 11:07:16 AM ~ Berger: any more questions. Thank you Mr. Doll 2:24:05 ~ 12/8/2011 11:07:27 AM ~ Berger: Need copies of rhe bills , audit after lunch 2:24:50 ~ 12/8/2011 11:08:12 AM ~ Nicholas: I know you wanted to do this at 7am 2:25:01 ~ 12/8/2011 11:08:23 AM ~ Berge: Good morning Mr. Gruver and Mr. Waters, 2:25:17 ~ 12/8/2011 11:08:39 AM ~ Gruver: history and walk through...mgt audit council reviewed technology mgt, JAC met in the interim, Mr. Waters gave report, I worked with Mr. Waters on versions of the bill. Presented the bill to mgt audit, which voted to sponsor it. Mr. Schiffer noted mgt audit is not a floor committee so assigned to JAC although Jac does nto consider many bills during a budget session, asked for bill to be presented ahead of time so you could develop amendmentsj Takes ..out of A&I and ... puts together in a new dept. repeals the telecommunication office,, Pg 2: CIO and Div of IT from A&I are transferred to the new dept under a type 1 transfer Pg 2 line 18 - need to figure out what to do. ..allows governor broad discression on use and funding for this biennium and the next biennium.. no appropraition for a new department, gives th egovernor broad authority...they have formulated a budget.. Do you want a seperate budget or do you not want the appropriation and give the discretion to the governor. 2:29:05 ~ 12/8/2011 11:12:27 AM ~ Nicholas: What is a type 1 transfer" 2:29:13 ~ 12/8/2011 11:12:35 AM ~ Gruver: Type 1 move all functions to a new dept. Type 3 move licensing..type 2 might be an intermediate transfer, new dept with reorganizaton plan, reviewed by 1 or 2 committees that make adjustments, then implement the legislation. This exempts the new dept from the 1989 reorganizatino act... All ...are moved over. pg 3 line 27 Governor appoint a director for the agency with advise and consent of the senate Pg 4 line Exemption from reorg act Pg 5 New dept creasted consists of two divisions, info tech div and services div, from MR. Waters CIO will serve as teh director, Federal agencies, etc want to deal with a CIO pg 6 CIO appoints administrators, director serves at pleasure of governor, governor can remove 209 02...at pleasure of governor, some people can be removed for cause. 2:32:44 ~ 12/8/2011 11:16:06 AM ~ Pedersen: What were some of the debates and other things for our education? 2:33:02 ~ 12/8/2011 11:16:24 AM ~ Mr. Gruver: Do you want it absolutely clear or do you want the govenor to be able to remove other administrators or do you want it to be that only the director can remove them, added language so that ...cooper... governor can not remove adminstrators except for cause. 2:34:01 ~ 12/8/2011 11:17:23 AM ~ Pg 6 comments from Mr. Waters so left in if it helped explain the bill Agency is written very broadly,..if it is in the Executive branch it is under this office for computer purchases and services. UW and Colmmunity Colleges excluded. DOT, Game and Fish excluded for specific things 2:35:34 ~ 12/8/2011 11:18:56 AM ~ Meier: Would that preclude the colleges from getting in on next purchase? 2:36:12 ~ 12/8/2011 11:19:34 AM ~ Gruver: No sir...not the commission, not hte college, not UW 2:36:31 ~ 12/8/2011 11:19:53 AM ~ Meier: understanding aversion that judicial branch has at following rules for anyone else, language that they can request assistance but not be under the rules 2:37:03 ~ 12/8/2011 11:20:25 AM ~ Gruver: This bill has those provisions. 2:37:13 ~ 12/8/2011 11:20:35 AM ~ Berger: continue 2:37:16 ~ 12/8/2011 11:20:38 AM ~ Gruver Pg 7 ilnes 21 -23 "Data analytics" definition 2:37:39 ~ 12/8/2011 11:21:01 AM ~ Mr. Waters: The analytics is the interpretion of the data for forming budget,...demonstrating the impact of gathering data instead of gathering it just to gather...ex: Medical dept medications. 2:38:29 ~ 12/8/2011 11:21:51 AM ~ Gruver: pg 8 lines 5-12 two defiinitions Information processing software and information technology equipment. purchased, procured (developed by agencys or received for free) breath of those is intentionl IT equip means handheld devices , personal computers, Judiciary is exempt unless they want in Tlecommunications transport services means telecommunicating, video conferencing 2:40:11 ~ 12/8/2011 11:23:33 AM ~ Berger: expand 2:40:15 ~ 12/8/2011 11:23:37 AM ~ Mr. Waters, the current authority.. 2:40:24 ~ 12/8/2011 11:23:46 AM ~ Gruver: Pg 9, pg 10: ..taken from A & I statutory language and made specific to IT......general statements pg 10 ine 15 exclusion for legislature and judicial branch pg 11, line 19 getting into the dept.. CIO can hire, carry out purposes Pg Took all things scattered through statue and through bills for the years, coordination function or approval function, put into categories 2:42:26 ~ 12/8/2011 11:25:48 AM ~ Nicholas: Director of A & I, trhen CIO, is that final construct. How often do we have that where second tier can hire and fire or is this new. 2:42:54 ~ 12/8/2011 11:26:16 AM ~ Gruver: THE CIO and the Dirctor are the same person...could eliminate the title of CIO and think of it as director of the dept of enterprise technology. Functions: assume function listed came from exisiting statute unless I point it out. Pg 12 line 5 - 10 line 6 - 10 is new...mgt council request...dept can use existing information and ask agencies to supplement it if necessary... pg 12 line 16 only addition is "procurement" pg 13 lines ..1- 22 taken from IT services just as they are...pg 13 line 6 dept will have ability to ensure agency compliance, major finding in program development. 2:45:54 ~ 12/8/2011 11:29:16 AM ~ Meier: what is the penaly if they do not comply? 2:46:12 ~ 12/8/2011 11:29:34 AM ~ WAters: compliance in purchasing...agencies have ...meeting in the middle, no statemate yet 2:46:48 ~ 12/8/2011 11:30:10 AM ~ Nicholas: AMendment with cooperation of Dave, requires research.. one of the duties would be to devlop, maintain and implement a total quality management program that involves agency participation, one tthat would catalog complaints, performances and response to those and provide regualr reporting to Jac and the gove for implentation of the program and compliance...general concept, Flint..grab volumes that address total mgt quality in govt setting, some hospitals have with success... Deming father of TQM, started with Toyota, take that TQm and how you implement it and outline the process...If we are going to do this , important tool, if you can not get on your computer you are dead in the water, might as well go home..a different type of consolidation, always been my goal to do this in govt, esp. in this area... research and put in amendments 2:50:15 ~ 12/8/2011 11:33:37 AM ~ Von Flatern: word ensure....bill has recommends, suggests, philosophical question, shall comply did you mean it so the CIO had that type of leverage or a suggest bill 2:51:01 ~ 12/8/2011 11:34:23 AM ~ Gruver: The language is pretty strong and prescriptive..Bottom line of all of this isthat it is the governor's call, for purchases there clearly is...auditor will not sign a warrant, agency will not buy unless the cio has approved it. standard and policies, language will ensure it is uniform, not criminal penalty ..there is legislative intent, CIO can be asked ro reveiw that the agency is in compliance, prescriptive more so than current law 2:52:56 ~ 12/8/2011 11:36:18 AM ~ Von Flatern: Gov recommends for Cio changes in budgets should disappear 2:53:24 ~ 12/8/2011 11:36:46 AM ~ Mr. Waters: we do review ...I believe twice...strengthen language twice..no agency may make changes in the system, other area pertains to budget language for reviewing purchases.. In statutes, director could override .. brought over budget language 2:54:24 ~ 12/8/2011 11:37:46 AM ~ Meier: Where is the max set and who sets it? 2:54:32 ~ 12/8/2011 11:37:54 AM ~ MR. Waters: Current max is 500. I set it in with mgt council. I would liketo increase and set a reporting level..have not set levels comfortable with yet..want participating effectively 2:55:13 ~ 12/8/2011 11:38:35 AM ~ Meier: One state agency used maximum amount several times to get around it.. 2:55:35 ~ 12/8/2011 11:38:57 AM ~ Mr. Waters: keyboard or mouse, two weeks for 30 dollar...not build a data center for 499 at a time 2:56:05 ~ 12/8/2011 11:39:27 AM ~ Gruver: followup on questions: dept reviews and makes recommendation to the governor, should help with reductions pg 14 line 144- 19 US and communitty colleges can adhere, as they determine feasible, pg 14, line maximum amounts, discussion of amount. by rule and policy, Pg 15 whatever is set, no funds can be spent in excess unless CIO has approved 2:57:48 ~ 12/8/2011 11:41:10 AM ~ Waters: budget language difference...did not know how to reconcile it...local agency reimbursment funding, proposed language not knowing the original intent of the bill 2:58:22 ~ 12/8/2011 11:41:44 AM ~ Gruver: Bill limited to the budget, gives CIO some direction.. pg 15 ines 14 -17 CIO approves it only for a lesser amount if it can be purchased cheaper through a different account....if saved money changed from 50/50 split into budget initiative or GF, this changed to saving revert to fund money came from. Pg 16, line 5...CIO and program evaluations staff......If CIO thinks it need reviewed, agency must supply info, security or standards issue Pg CIO....agency can adopt standards that are not in conflict 3:00:52 ~ 12/8/2011 11:44:14 AM ~ BErger: discussions .. 3:01:00 ~ 12/8/2011 11:44:22 AM ~ Waters: stemmed from poeple disabling the entire network,.. 3:01:32 ~ 12/8/2011 11:44:54 AM ~ Gruvr3: Page 16 lines - 3:01:49 ~ 12/8/2011 11:45:11 AM ~ Edmonds: Enterprise analytics will effect a lot of people. Comfortable with process. 3:02:30 ~ 12/8/2011 11:45:52 AM ~ Waters: Part of what looking where health and education want to draw conculusions off data pool. ... He didn't want to amke an asssumption to make these types of policies. Coordinated naming conventions and data standards. When business cases for news system these compnent are conssidered. 3:03:55 ~ 12/8/2011 11:47:17 AM ~ Griver: Page 16, line 18 Page 17linese 17-22 are new 3:04:40 ~ 12/8/2011 11:48:02 AM ~ 3:04:44 ~ 12/8/2011 11:48:06 AM ~ Gruver page 17 lines 21- -- secruity services directed by governor The governor can direct the department 3:05:53 ~ 12/8/2011 11:49:15 AM ~ Gruver: Pag18 lines 1-16. Way to account and bill for agencies. The goal for agencies see uniform delivery of services. A& I interacting with Tech Services through MOU. They can share services 3:07:03 ~ 12/8/2011 11:50:25 AM ~ Waters: Intent not to keep additional expense to the state. Work closely with A& I. They will provide IT services for A& I. 3:07:34 ~ 12/8/2011 11:50:56 AM ~ Gruver: Page 18 lines 18 Telecom functions We expand beyond agencies in a number of positions and goes also to local givernment --- video conferenceing and long distance services and those programs in effect now such as compressed video. Tried not to make changes from current law. 3:08:46 ~ 12/8/2011 11:52:08 AM ~ 3:08:52 ~ 12/8/2011 11:52:14 AM ~ Waters: Clear confusion 3:09:09 ~ 12/8/2011 11:52:31 AM ~ Gruver page 19 line 20 holds throughout provisions. If dealt with coordination or service function educational institutions are included. 3:09:40 ~ 12/8/2011 11:53:02 AM ~ Edmonds: page 19 line 5. 3:09:50 ~ 12/8/2011 11:53:12 AM ~ Waters: Pertains to pass through billing. 3:10:05 ~ 12/8/2011 11:53:27 AM ~ Gruver: Unless you want to stop on any particular one these follow pattern coordination for educational institutions and local givernment are left in. Page 21 line 25 -- The CIO woudl represent all telecom users in the state so have unified voice 3:11:34 ~ 12/8/2011 11:54:56 AM ~ Waters: Have met with local providers and FCC. Working with providers. 3:12:01 ~ 12/8/2011 11:55:23 AM ~ Edmonds: Would this mean for broadband in going to schools. 3:12:20 ~ 12/8/2011 11:55:42 AM ~ Waters: Do work with Dept. Education, local providers and state broad band offices in those communities. They are working Broadband RFP. Also working with community colleges. 3:13:04 ~ 12/8/2011 11:56:26 AM ~ Gruver: Page 22 line 11 These are exemptions from telecom provisions . First deals with VOT and Wyolink. Shows who has control over what services per current law. Page 222 line 20. Page 24 Public communications . Page 24 line 7 Allows agency to go out for own system as long as compatible and approvided by CIO Page 25 is from current law. The Dept through Stated Education Telecom plan as it applies to private school. Telehealth can also be provided. Page 26 lines 12 Can;t do if can get from private sources. Page 26 line 21 Pagge 27 line 23 Page 27. 5 JAC request for zero budget.on biennial. 3:16:55 ~ 12/8/2011 12:00:17 PM ~ Nicholas: When finished with this and the move has been made. Are there spects that will serve as a redundancy to A&I as it relates to billing. 3:17:42 ~ 12/8/2011 12:01:04 PM ~ Waters: The intention is to coordinate with A& I. 3:18:03 ~ 12/8/2011 12:01:25 PM ~ Gruver: It is the part of the MOU for accounting and billing of agencies -- uniform bill. If question gets to funnding of services will touch upon in three pages of the billl. Will require some language in the budget bill as far as pulling out of each agencies budget. 3:19:07 ~ 12/8/2011 12:02:29 PM ~ Nicholas: How do we get the agency started? We now create an entity that once again that has a choke hold on every agency out there. Is he going to seize control over network 3:20:02 ~ 12/8/2011 12:03:24 PM ~ Waaters: We currently have that role. 3:20:14 ~ 12/8/2011 12:03:36 PM ~ Nicholas: Comfortable news now. Going to tell A& I what charge for services and A& I gets the brunt if there is a problem with billing 3:20:48 ~ 12/8/2011 12:04:10 PM ~ Waters: We are in that role today. Send out 400 series in advance. We are trying to make transparent. If this moves forward it wll be a more streamlined model -- we will be able to provide the formula with the bill. The overhead is difficult to understand. We are trying to get around and make easily accessbile. 3:22:02 ~ 12/8/2011 12:05:24 PM ~ Von Flatern: On 9-2- 2907 page 20 Are we using... 3:22:49 ~ 12/8/2011 12:06:11 PM ~ Gruver: The intent of how A7I woudl develop with stanrd budget and exception budget to the next year. A& I tells them what budget and tellls them what to change and identify for the committeee. IT would be a differnet document. ... Can;t tell what is meant by zero based budgeting. From Page 27 to Page 29 line 6 was his intent to talk about zero based budget. 3:24:21 ~ 12/8/2011 12:07:43 PM ~ Waters: 9000 series is abour runaway. Starting from scratch intending what to spend. Gov asked to review budgets and in some manner became continuous budgeting. It is an excellent exercise. ... Insruign what we asked for if somehting fell through the cracks... 3:25:33 ~ 12/8/2011 12:08:55 PM ~ Mier: When there is a change... DFS example of AWECs and it was supposed to be all done, but people rolled into standard budget. Those are the type of things you look at with zero based budgeting... ramp up for project and th need to justify again.... 3:27:20 ~ 12/8/2011 12:10:42 PM ~ Gruver: Page 29 line 6 pullled from statutes Page 29 lines 8-10 from Management Audit Committte wants Agency to look rhrough IT positions to see which should be pulled into the new agency. It would be a continual process. On page 30 lines 1-8 The governor is to look at this department's budget with eye to IT appropriations Page 30 lines 17-22 Unelesee theres is an exception it will be in the same time frame Page 31- Most are comfornign amendments.. On page 32 through Page 33 line 11. Agency Director doe not approve purchase. Done by CIO. Page 33 to Page 34 line12. Moved to Homeland Security. From Page 35 inee 14 to Page 35 line 12 On page 36 line 12 Business Council Page 36 line 24 to page 38 line 3 comfornimg to Homeland Security . Rest is comforming until page 42 line 1. Page 50 line 15 The idea of A& I and new agency would develop a list of positions to transfer. On page 51 line 13 Vacant positions can't be filled unless description of position and recommendation. Gov would authorize. Page 51 line 15 Gove would submit list to JAC. Page 52 lines 5-12 JAC develops legislation. 3:33:49 ~ 12/8/2011 12:17:11 PM ~ Mier: On page 42 TQM criteria apply in whats described 3:34:21 ~ 12/8/2011 12:17:43 PM ~ Gruver: ... put TQM requirement 3:34:41 ~ 12/8/2011 12:18:03 PM ~ Gruver: Management Audit Committee recommend bill and will refer to JAC. 3:35:01 ~ 12/8/2011 12:18:23 PM ~ Von Flatern: 9-2-1017. 3:35:33 ~ 12/8/2011 12:18:55 PM ~ Gruver Page 32 It si a conforming amendment 3:35:51 ~ 12/8/2011 12:19:13 PM ~ Nicholas: There will be a budgetary amendment, I assume. Are there some world class consultants who could assist. Would like to see this jump started. What costs, provides budget and description for markup 3:36:50 ~ 12/8/2011 12:20:12 PM ~ Von Flatern: Budget amendment 3:36:59 ~ 12/8/2011 12:20:21 PM ~ NicholasL There is a need for transition for this statute. Could be a budgetary amendment, budgets reviewed and revised or these things can move around. The bill is not self executing 3:37:56 ~ 12/8/2011 12:21:18 PM ~ Gruver: Do you want to fund this agency in the budget. JAC would have budget amendment or otherwise have to decide how to pull these monies that requrie language. 3:39:00 ~ 12/8/2011 12:22:22 PM ~ Nicholas: Had agencies do it for smaller agencies. Waters would provide budget consturct. I... level of detail for hypothetical budget can see how complicated so can see how devise a strategy 3:39:54 ~ 12/8/2011 12:23:16 PM ~ Jones: That essentially has been frames. We create agency 306 to create an alternative budget. 400 series... to be able to give a sense of what is being withdrawn 3:40:48 ~ 12/8/2011 12:24:10 PM ~ Nicholas: If agency budget we haven't seen .. we are going to adopt a budget that ... will have to devise budget to execute 3:41:55 ~ 12/8/2011 12:25:17 PM ~ Berger: When hear A7 I breakdown 3:42:09 ~ 12/8/2011 12:25:31 PM ~ Nicholas: Appear in the budget. Bill will track its own way. Doesn't think it will be complicated. 3:42:44 ~ 12/8/2011 12:26:06 PM ~ BergerL Other questions. 3:42:53 ~ 12/8/2011 12:26:15 PM ~ Berger: Break for lunch and come back at 1:15pm. 3:43:07 ~ 12/8/2011 12:26:29 PM ~